12 Year Old Causes Suspension Of Rights In Oahi

Local Inspection Issues Canadian Home Inspectors
21

**Here is the definition of Student from the OAHI by-laws.

****http://www3.sympatico.ca/raymond.wand/OAHI.pdf

At the above link page 4; Item 6:

****…It must be remembered that, once a complaint has been initiated, (whether by a third party giving notice of a complaint to the Committee or by the Committee, upon its own motion, giving notice to the member that it is considering whether such member may have committed an infringement of the By-laws), NO DISCIPLINARY ACTIONS MAY BE TAKEN AGAINST THE MEMBER WITHOUT A COMMITTEE HEARING. Once the complaint has been initiated, the only action that the Committee may take without holding a hearing is to determine that no further action be taken in respect of such a complaint. …

Page 4; Item 7:

…It must be remembered that it is necessary to provide notice of a hearing even in those cases where the hearing relates to a matter raised by the Committee upon its own motion (for example, a hearing to determine whether the member has infringed OAHI’d Code of Conduct by failing to respond promptly to a complaint, as discussed above.)

Unfortunately I guess Mr. Faux and Mr. Lloyd the Discipline Chair have been negligent in their duties to ensure fairness, objectivity and complaince with the Associations letter directing the Association how to proceed. Clearly this has not been the case. The members in question have not been given any hearing, no evidence, and membership upgrade and/or a fine imposed!

Secondly OAHI has no right inferring or directing and then imposing any fines, et cetera on members for being a Student who is not practicing under OAHI and cannot rule that such Students who are also members of another association have violated any rules in OAHI while being a member of another association. Its not a contravention to earn a livelihood! This seems to be a violation fo the Charter Rights which OAHI would have to abide by as it is a body enacted by the provincial government.

Now PR 158 the enacting legislation also states:

3 (f) to seek and maintain affiliations with, and to co-operate with, other organizations having objects, in whole or in
part, the same as or similar to the objects of the Association.

  1. (1) The board of directors may pass bylaws regarding such matters as are necessary to conduct the business and carry out the objects of the Association and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, in addition to the matters specifically elsewhere provided in this Act, the board may pass by-laws,

a) to establish and prescribe such categories of membership as are necessary for the purposes of the Association and
in the public interest;

b) to prescribe the qualifications for membership in and registration by the Association;

c) to provide for the continuing education and professional development of the members of the Association;

d) to regulate and govern the conduct of members of the Association in the practice of their business or profession, by prescribing a code of ethics, rules of professional conduct and standards of practice and by establishing procedures for considering complaints made against members;

(2) The board shall pass by-laws,

(a) to provide for and govern the discipline, suspension, expulsion or other penalty for professional misconduct, incapacity or incompetence;

(b) to establish a discipline committee and its procedures;

© to establish an appeals committee and its procedures; and

(d) to establish an admission review committee and its procedures.

So where in the underlying legislation is power granted to impose arbitrary fines or other penalty without due process as afforded and clearly as stated in the Associations lawyers letter?

Clearly the BOD is and has acted well outside the confines of its Charter, and the legislation as intended. Duty of Care and Standard of care seem to be in short supply or non existent.

I would welcome any member or Director or Committee Chair of OAHI to refute the above and or debate the above. Obviously the By-law Committee of OAHI is sanctioning and condoning the improprieties and may in fact be responsible for enacting by-laws which they have little knowledge of by way imposition the cause and affect.

Surely the Ethics Chair for CAHPI would have grave concerns and an interest in this matter?
**

22

This is so strange .
If a person was an independant doing inspections and wishes to join OAHI as a student, they must now stop doing inspections .
How can they feed their familly?
When complaints came into OAHI before the person accused of wrong doing was sent a letter asking for their side of the accusation before the next step was taken if it was needed.
Even then I do beleive there are more steps required before any punishement was handed down .
Only then would it be necessary for an appeal to be launched .
I do believe that the DPPC had to respond in atimly fashion .
It looks like to me that proper proceedure is sure not being followed.
I wonder who if any have the courage to launch a court case against fair treatment and improper following the OAHI rules .
I wonder could this not lead to OAHI loosing their charter.

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/internet/incilp-pdci.nsf/en/cl00700e.html

http://www.aaronline.com/documents/LegReqMtngMin.aspx

http://reactor-core.org/roberts-rules.html

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

23

Drunk with power? Sure looks that way. Looks like if you are a Nachi member and practicing you are not allowed to be a student in OAHI.

The bigger question…and shows that discriminatory practices are alive and well in OAHI is me. I am a retired RHI in OAHI, and a active member in NACHI. So if we follow the logic demonstrated by OAHI against students then I should be receiving the same sort of treatment, which I am not, yet others are. Seems OAHI likes to prey on the meek and innocence and the those not aware of their rights. I guess that is why OAHI is not treating me like they do the other poor souls because they know I am correct and have been able to call their bluffs.

With these sort of abuses going on who can be guaranteed of fair assessment and treatment with regard to National Certification? NO ONE!

You can be sure they won’t let anyone in OAHI talk about these very grave concerns on the OAHI CAFE Forum, they would be suspended and the rules usurped to ensure discussion of fundamental freedoms are denied!

24

OAHI likes to pick on the timid.
I guess they know not to grab an alligator by the tail as it can turn around and bite them big time .
If it ever happens I have so many documents that they will look as foolish as they act.
With you all the way Roy Sr.

I expect they know all this by now our Buddy Dave has started again putting many of these post’s on Bill Mullens private Canuk list

25

Well the Cats out of the bag now!
Those that sit in judgement and break the prescribed rules are going to be outed.

26

I find it more than a little alarming that a body who received their mandate from the provincial government is now operating well outside the bounds of that mandate. Equally alarming is the connection with the CAPHI programme which has received 2 - 8 million dollars of tax payers money. How can the public be assured of the fair treatment of inspectors by a body so clearly out of control and possibly operating illegally? Which minister should be informed?

27

Well it would appear the Ethics Chair of CAHPI and his committee have no concerns whatsoever. We know he reads these threads, and we know others are reading this because its a public forum.

Even more of a concern is why OREA, RECO, and CREA are lending support to a body which is clearly acting outside the confines of its by-laws and and enacting legislation?

I think you will find once they find out what is going on they will become jaded. These are professional bodies and they would not want to lend credence to any body that conducts it affairs and mandate in such a manner.

28

I am away on vacation and happen to be catching up on emails and reading posts.

Ray you are welcome to submit your concerns to either or both bodies. You know the procedure. Judgment will not be offered here by me or likely any other committee member from either bodies. So don’t expect to get one here!

You also are smart enough to realize their is fine line between jurisdictions involved here. That is not to say that “formal” documented issues involving allegations or complaints concerning ethics and discipline between CAHPI & OAHI, or any other CAHPI association do not have some degree of overlap especially now that the dynamics are changing with the National Initiative.

Certainly you feel you are within your rights to discuss it here- so be it, thats your choice. But you are well aware the paper work to support the formal complaint must be filed, before any “allegation” will be considered. Otherwise it will not be dealt with based on what’s posted or alleged here!

So as stated before here - do not expect a response here formally or otherwise. Respectfully - simply follow the required process.

29

Welcome back Claude, maybe you should have stayed away. :wink:

Why would I submit my concerns when I know what the answers will be! Its called a white wash. For your info I sent a series of letters to the relevent parties asking for the rules, et cetera. Guess what; no answer! Seems to be a repetitive theme, wouldn’t you say? Who needs to submit proof? Read back through this post, look at the CAFE conversation, look how OAHI was able to come to logical, objective, non bias decisions.

You know as well as I know that CAHPI by-laws have no weight whatsoever, just as your role has no power. We all know complaints and discipline revert back to the provincial body, in this case OAHI. You mean the National that cannot assure OAHI will undertake its responsibilities seriously? How can you state a complaint should be filed when we know what will happen at your end? Nothing. Sorry that is just the way it will play out. It has happened already, no power, no bite, all talk no action or meaningful action, pass the buck…

Follow procedure? What don’t you understand? The fact is there is no due process in OAHI, I have documented evidence that the by-laws are being breached and no one can expect fair treatment let alone a fair process. Ask anyone else who has been privied to the info I have. The system is broken and not even you Claude is able to fix it. All the Kings men and all the Kings horses can’t put Humpty Dumpty together again. This is what happens when you have some who get drunk on power. This is by no means the only incident where people have been accused, and not being presented with the evidence, the Secretary does not have the power to fine or collect fines, nor render verdicts, nor act solely. The association is to be democratic, and the DPPC looks after complaints at arms length from the BOD for good reason. No doubt you have read what the Association lawyer has to say about proper procedure in the link above. The previos DPPC chair got sacked for fining people without a hearing. Now we have reverted back to fining people without any hearing! Its also quite clear that Nachi members are being targeted.

Your right about my choice to express my opinion here, just as it was my right to express my comments and concerns on any other forum without fear of reprisal or suspension.

If you wish to remain ignorant of the issues, and the facts that is your problem, not mine.

30

Sorry double post Roy sr

31

Claude I personally know of at least three who have been fined By OAHI with out a hearing .
You can say oh thats only hear say well Claude where there is smoke there is Fire .
I also had a charge against a director of OAHI and it has gone no where .
I understand Ray was removed from the CAFE again for defending NACHI
from Dave Bottoms mean and vicious attacks against NACHI and NICK .
The post’s I saw confirmed it.
OAHI did not remove Dave ( Tell me again OAHI plays fair) .
Dave is still an associated ( 8 years ) ( the rules say 3 ) and has not completed his 150 inspections .
Claude I feel you have to be able to see what is going on and for you
too ignore these travesties is wrong and improper.
The only conclusion I can form is you do not wish to rock the boat
for fear of falling out .
It is wrong for you to try and cover up for OAHI .
I am so glad we Canadians have NACHI to show what a poor association OAHI is
and how the BOD does not treat the membership correctly .
Many great Home Inspectors are afraid ( like you to stand up )
for fear the same treatment they see others get.
You remind me others are following these post’s and I should be carefull.
Well Claude I have said it before and am willing to see OAHI just try and stop me and others from posting the truth .
Yes as you keep reminding me , The truth as I see it well please look in the mirror tonight
and see if you think you are helping the proper group .
Sleep well Claude I know I try and do the correct thing .
I highly suspect DB continues to watch constantly ( MSNBot Spider )
Roy Cooke sr

32

Very good points Roy. Its obvious OAHI was hoping to intimidate members into keeping quiet. Well this time they appear to have gone to far and people are now realizing they are being taken advantage of. It appears to be a case of lets see how much money we can extort from the timid and the weak and the ill informed.

It is amazing what the membership will put up with in OAHI everything from vote rigging, improper financial records, no minutes of BOD meetings, directors being threatened, members being threatened, the list is endless. These people can’t hold a candle to Nachi members when it comes to ethics and honesty! Just read Mr. Faux election platform it is clear this is the new mentality. His goal is to seek out those he considers beneath himself and use the rules to his liking with full knowledge by the other directors and the DPPC. Nice! No wonder people are frieghtened to speak up, OAHI is apparently willing to use the full resources at its disposal to keep people in line even though its breaking the law.

33

This was written by Terry Carson and I am posting it because it jives with the concerns I am raising.

I would like to respond to a few points raised

  1. A code of ethics or code of conduct is intended to define the broad range of actions and behaviors which are acceptable and not acceptable. The application to a specific situation will usually require a sanctioned body (discipline committee or a court of law in tort actions) to judge whether the specific actions of the accused have crossed the line into unacceptable territory. Professionals by definition are responsible for defining the scope of their work based on the circumstance of their assignment. Other lower level workers on the other hand are required to complete a specific task in a prescribed manner. If we see ourselves as professionals, there should not be the need to prescribe all details as has been suggested. If anyone feels differently, they should research the code of ethics of other professions we should emulate, try to draft changes and then solicit feedback. I contend that if there is a problem with the process, it is in the application and enforcement rather than the content of the Code of Conduct.

  2. Anyone who has an interest in this issue should write the OACETT Professional Practices exam and learn from their excellent study guide.

  3. The OAHI Discipline and Professional Committee has two distinctive roles that require different approaches, rather than a single approach.
    a). Discipline Related Complaints (Complaints Subcommittee) Complaints related to the actions of an individual must be handled according to procedures outlined in Article 13 (one of the most detailed sections of the by-laws-for good reason), to ensure fairness and avoid law suits. There should be a sub-committee which is focused on processing and hearing complaints.

b). Providing Professional Practice Guidelines (Practices Advisory Sub-Committee)

Where there is a controversial practice of some members, or pressures from the market place, such as Home Link a few years ago, these issues can not be handled in a vacuum by the committee alone. There must be an open airing of the issues, and parties which may have conflicting views on the issue must be invited to attend an open hearing. Hearings should be initiated by this subcommittee, or at the direction of the board of directors to examine a specific issue. The subcommittee then should submit a written report with a recommendation, which should be then endorsed by the board of directors and ultimately the membership. If the issue is divisive or can not be resolved, the membership must be asked to vote. If everyone does their homework, establishment of policy statements becomes a cake walk, and the Complaints subcommittee gets precedents and policies that have the backing of the membership and the board of directors.

  1. Role of the Board of Directors

There have been statements from some who feel the board has not provided leadership on matters related to professional practices. The worst thing that could happen would be if a board leaps into action and does committee work without understanding the role of the board and its committees, as well as the issues themselves. Healthy organizations are beasts that must attain a level of consensus by methodically working through the issues and leaving a paper trail of policies and procedures.

The role of the board of directors is to manage the work of its committees. The board’s role is to simply accept reports and recommendations, or send them back based on aspects that are incomplete or run contrary to the bylaws, policies and procedures. If the board does the work of the committees on the fly, bad decisions and chaos will result. I have experienced this time and time again in a variety of organizations. Strong committee have the best grasp of the technical issues, do their homework, make good recommendations, provide a training ground for future leaders and earn the respect of their board and membership. How to get strong committees? Start by encouraging members to learn the history of their organization, it’s by- laws, policies and procedures, understand why certain procedures are necessary and then ask them to work towards improvements. How should a board maintain strong committees- Easy, Keep them on task, demand that they report in advance of meetings, read their reports, keep them informed, let them do their work, ask questions and respect their decisions.

  • Terry Carson
34

Boy this is good, the enlightened member is more concerned about goings on outside OAHI and CAHPI and this is the best he can come up with, considering what is going on as noted above!

Nice to see equality and justice alive and well in CAHPI-OAHI.

Dave.Bottoms

       160 Posts

I and many others were recently spammed by NACHI. The U.S. Federal Trade Commission has strict rules regarding spam email. NACHI broke a couple of those rules. Please see the following web site:

            http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm](http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/canspam.htm)

The two rules in question are:

  • It requires that your email give recipients an opt-out method. You must provide a return email address or another Internet-based response mechanism that allows a recipient to ask you not to send future email messages to that email address, and you must honor the requests. You may create a “menu” of choices to allow a recipient to opt out of certain types of messages, but you must include the option to end any commercial messages from the sender.

Any opt-out mechanism you offer must be able to process opt-out requests for at least 30 days after you send your commercial email. When you receive an opt-out request, the law gives you 10 business days to stop sending email to the requestor’s email address. You cannot help another entity send email to that address, or have another entity send email on your behalf to that address. Finally, it’s illegal for you to sell or transfer the email addresses of people who choose not to receive your email, even in the form of a mailing list, unless you transfer the addresses so another entity can comply with the law.

  • It requires that commercial email be identified as an advertisement and include the sender’s valid physical postal address. Your message must contain clear and conspicuous notice that the message is an advertisement or solicitation and that the recipient can opt out of receiving more commercial email from you. It also must include your valid physical postal address.
    NACHI’s spam did not include this information.
    If you would like to lodge a complaint, please visit the FTC web site and fill out their complaint form:

            [https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01](https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_CODE=PU01)

You will be required to provide contact information on the company about which you are complaining. Here it is:

National Association of Certified Home Inspectors
1750 30th Street
Boulder, CO 80301
(650) 429-2057
http://www.nachi.org/
FastReply@nachi.org

35

Boy OH BOY!!! Dave Bottoms calling the kettle black.

He is with out a doubt the champion in all directions of email .
He makes more posts on Bill Mullens private list then any one else .
He lifts more emails from NACHI then any one else .
He complains about other inspectors then any one else.
He complains about Nick then any one else.
He spies on NACHI more then any one else.
He has done fewer inspections in 8 years then any one else.
( Still not an RHI)

Dave Bottoms the Champion of Champions ( The parasite )

The more I hear,
the more I see!
NACHI is the one for me !
Roy Cooke R.H.I. Royshomeinspection.com
A HAPPY NACHI MEMBER,… More find this out ever day!

Remember Whistler http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4935

36

If I can be of any help, please let me know. This does not seem to be fair and it is truly not democratic. Even though I am not a member of the Assoc. mentioned, I would like to help to make sure that NACHI members are not treated with disrespect.

I’d be happy to host a web site for you to air your complaints and post it with yahoo and google, as well as get you a list for a mass e-mailing.

Much luck and success. This is just not fair.

37

Respect begets respect. Fair is not in the OAHI vocabulary! Never has been.

Thanks for your support!

38

I guess OAHI has two different rules. Why is it that some people in OAHI have been targeted by the DPPC and the Secretary because they use C.H.I. and have been told to remove the use of CHI from their website, et ceteras yet others have not been told to? Could it be because the owner serves on various committees and the DPPC in OAHI? Hmmmmm.

http://www.ptpinspections.ca/Kevin_Profile.htm