That makes sense.
My good friend and former employee is a Master Electrician. He’s stumped as well. Either I didn’t explain it right, or I am mistaken about the broken tab.
Both breakers are on the same phase
If the hots did not feed through to other devices or if only one did, abandoned one in the box and install the GFCI.
If they go to feed other devices you could bypass the outlet for that circuit.
That’s how I see it. Connect the non-switch controlled hot to GFI and switch controlled to the correct outlet (light, heater, fan). Or cap and abandoned hot that is not needed.
Thanx guys. Slap myself on the forehead. That 's too easy.
Tomorrow I shall call and give my electrician buddy a lesson.
I am curious…
Why are you doing electrical work?
You are not qualified.
You are not licensed.
You do not have the proper experience.
You have no insurance or bond for such work.
It is illegal.
You are putting yourself, your client and the rest of the community at risk for safety and legal issues. Not to mention it is a conflict of interest for you to do so. It also invalidates your company slogan that is at the bottom of your posts.
You are mistaken
Actually, finding the answer and completing the work validates the slogan, thanks for the HELPFUL brothers here
Actually, it is for you:
§29-3B-8. Effect of noncompliance with article; failure to obtain license.
Any person, firm, corporation or employee thereof, or any representative, member or officer of such firm or corporation, individually, entering upon or engaging in the business of performing any electrical work as defined in this article, without obtaining the required license or otherwise complying with this article, is for the first offense guilty of a misdemeanor, and, upon conviction thereof, shall be fined not less than one hundred dollars, nor more than five hundred dollars. For a second and each subsequent offense, the penalty and punishment is a fine of not less than five hundred dollars nor more than one thousand dollars. Each day during which such electrical work is performed without the required license or while in noncompliance with any of the provisions of this article, after official notice that such work is unlawful, is a separate offense.
Be careful with your insurance: it won’t pay off if you are doing work you are not licensed for.
You are mistaken. Again. Read the entire article. Here’s the link.
The law states that an electrical license is not required for:
- A person working on their own property.
- Doing maintenance work as an employee.
- Appliance installer.
- Electrical work performed on public facilities while employed by the public utility.
- Government workers doing electrical work on government property.
Please help me understand how you can perform electrical work while not exempt from any of the above.
May I ask who you are? Do just troll message boards and harass members? Living on the opposite side of the country from Mike I really don’t see your point.
My sentiments exactly, Chris. Thanks.
And just in case it would happen to be Mr. Hansen’s business, or really a concern, in order to fall into these categories you have to charge for this service. Performing work for a relative, or neighbor, or just to be kind, as long as you don’t charge for it, is okay.
If you’re out of the city limits you won’t need a permit.
That being said, I can still do electrical work, and have a Master Electrician sign off on it, and everything would be legal.
Maybe Mr Hansen wants to do electrical work in WV, and since I am putting the structure, the entire community, and my insurance in danger by installing a GFCI outlet, he’s worried there will be nothing left here after the entire state burns to a crisp because I got the hot and neutral crossed in dim light, or because I was not qualified to connect black to black and white to white.
Each his own.
Now you are changing your story. You stated you did jobs for sellers getting their homes ready to sell. You do those for free?
A master electrician cannot sign off on any work. An electrical inspector is the only one who has the authorization to sign off permits. Being a home inspector you should know this.
Mike, I originally asked why you did this work without being licensed. I didn’t ask you to justify it, because you can’t. The law in WV is clear. You just choose not to follow it.
BTW, the code of ethics of this organization is an interesting read… it covers a lot of what we have been talking about.
Saying you do jobs for sellers, and then saying you don’t charge for those jobs are not conflicting statements. There are many inspectors in this organization who volunteer their time and their services within and outside the home inspection and real estate industry. I do free jobs for people all the time.
What it sounds like is, you have put your foot in your mouth and are now doubling down in an effort to sound right. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging.
My story has never changed. Your perception may have, or maybe while jumping to conclusions you over shot your boundaries.
Like Cameron says, Sellers are not always limited to clients or customers. My sister just sold a house, my brother just bought one. My mother in law is looking. They all know I am pretty handy, and will ask me to perform work for them. It may be plumbing, it may be wiring, it could be installing a French Drain. I am not “licensed” to do any of it. But I will do it.
If I run into trouble, I will likely ask for some advice from a NACHI member.
Most are quite helpful, Cam and Chris are a couple of many.
Do I Wish I had time to look at what others are doing 2500 miles away from me, look at their state laws, and scrutinize their ethics? Not really. I would spend that free time helping someone. But that’s just me.
Chris, Cam, Mike Larson, thanks so much for your help. It is much appreciated.
Will Hansen, I think there’s a guy in upstate New York who installed a TPR valve extension tube without a plumbing license or permit.
Sick him, Boy :|.)
I’m sorry, I think you are too confused for me to explain this to you, or maybe you’re just not educated enough to understand the difference. Your personal satisfaction of my justification is simply not needed. The law in WV is clear. Your vision of the law is not.
Read more on the Code of Ethics. My State has its own as well. You could probably find a plethora of opportunities to criticize many members here on that subject.
Don’t expect open arms. We are not amused or impressed.
I ran onto this one time while servicing a dishwasher. Turned off the DW circuit breaker and as always, checked the line and found it was still hot.
Took a while to trace down the wiring and find a wrong wire under a wire nut in a J-box in the basement, connecting two breakers on the same phase.
Around here, (near KCKS) the homeowner can do his on work without a licenses IF it is a single family dwelling which he lives in but it still requires a city or county permit and a final inspection by the codes inspector.
(I know, I know, that has nothing to do with somebody not qualified doing little side jobs for others.)
Thanks for the info ,This is exactly what I said any good electrician could find the problem .
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Originally Posted by canderson5 http://nachi.cachefly.net/forum/images/2006/buttons/viewpost.gif
Then it has to be the wires got mixed up. There’s no scenario where two ungrounded(hot) conductors could be connected to a 120 v receptacle(tabs intact) without tripping the circuits or frying some 120 volt equipment.
How about if both are on the same phase .
Regardless it is wrong .
An electrician would have no trouble figuring out this instantly.
This has been a great thread because it reinforces the potential for hazards in several different scenarios found when inspecting electrical. For example, I always call out abandoned wiring which has been left exposed because of the possibility of a DIYer making a connection in the future and lighting up wiring anywhere in the house. Your comment gives some teeth to that call and is a good reminder that people have to be protected from themselves. Thanks.