2 prong outlets and computer equipment

**Consider that “three-pronged” plugs have been engineered for use with a “three-hole” grounded receptacle. **

The manufacturer requires a three-hole receptacle, and that’s what I work with.

Somehow, I don’t believe the manufacturer consulted you before making their determination, so I’ll stick with what they say.

Time after time, *licensed *electricians have agreed with me (I suppose there were some who didn’t, but that was never presented to me.) It is possible they agreed because it meant work for them…but I doubt it.

To the point:

“The house is wired with 2-prong ungrounded receptacles. While common years ago and still acceptable today, the lack of a grounding conductor will limit the use of certain appliances such as refrigerators, washing machines, computers, etc. that require a ground. Dedicated circuits may have to be run to properly and safely use such appliances. You should consult with a licensed electrician about the limitations of this older wiring system.”

No. This statement may or may not be correct.

You are both assuming that a two-wire receptacle is ungrounded. This is simply not true. the ONLY way that a receptacle (ANY receptacle) is UNGROUNDED is if there is nothing extending the system ground to the receptacle.

Two-wire armor-sheathed cable and 3-wire non-metallic cable may extend the ground to the receptacle box. The mounting screws for the receptacle (at the upper and lower tabs) mechanically and electrically bond the receptacle to the gronded receptacle box; thusly GROUNDING the receptacle.

A cheater plug may indeed be UL listed and LEGAL for the purpose of extending the system ground to a 3-prong device that calls for it.

The ONLY way to detwemine if a receptacle is ungrounded is to examine the system and distribution cables associated with it.

Absent of this effort, the rest is hoopla, balderdash, and poppycock.

Stop getting hung up on what the receptacle looks like or doesnt look like! INSPECT the SYSTEM!

The SYSTEM will determine what is going on, and provide you with the datum needed to convey ACCURATE information, so your client can make an INFORMED decision.

The two wire system is neither a defect nor is it, by itself, unsafe. It should not be called out as a defect in a home inspection.

A Material defect is a problem with a residential real property or any portion of it that would have a significant adverse impact on the value of the property or that involves an unreasonable risk to people on the property.

???

Joe , in the above situation, does the receptacle box need to be metal or can it be plastic in order to bond the receptacle to the box?

If you plug a 3-prong adapter (cheater plug) into a 2-prong outlet and then plug in a 3-prong tester and first it reads open ground and then you connect the metal tab to the plate cover screw and it now reads correct circuit.

Would this identify the 2-prong outlet as being grounded? Or could this be giving a false reading to the tester?

I didn’t say it was a defect. My statement simply informs the client that the house has an older system that probably is not grounded and advises them to consult with an electrician about the limitations. I would think a client would be pretty angry if I failed to do so.

Similarly, I let them know that these older houses do not have as many outlets s new homes and they may need to add more.

I do not add these informational items to the Summary section (a section in my state relegated to items that need service or further investigation).

Regarding your statement about the receptacle box being grounded, in my experience that it rare. Mose 2 wire systems I see have no ground conductor at all. That is apparent by looking inside the panel.

And you are assuming that a more dilligent inspection was not made. In so much as I cannot recall you having been looking over my shoulder during an inspection, I feel safe in assuming that you were not present. In which case, keep you assumptions of my inspection ability to yourself.

I take strong exception to your claim:

“This statement is a load of crap.”

My statement that "two-hole receptacles are not grounded may be rather broad, it is 90% the rule rather than the except is this neighborhood. Metalic-clad cable has seldom been used around here and just as seldom has there been a ground wire included in the system.

Any such inclusion in a report may easily be edited or amended in any report to coincide with existing conditions.

The statement about these receptacles in my report is very similar to this. It has served me well for almost 15 years. In the areas in which I have worked, I have almost never seen anything but old cloth jacket two conductor romex type wiring used. Therefore, those receptacles would not be grounded.

A two-wire system is working as it was intended to work. It is not “defective” and does not need to be replaced.

So then, in your opinion having a 2 wire system does not have a **“significant adverse impact effect on the value of the property”. **

Right?

Jae,

Take the exception. It’s not whether you inspected or not, its your broad statement, which is simply inaccurate. This is what I take exception to.

Absent of first establishing what the distribution system is comprised of, the comment regarding the receptacle (not outlet) being ungrounded is unsubstantiated. Where did you write in your post that you had examined the distribution system and discovered that there was no ground conductor present? Did I miss it somewhere?

Remember… The primary is the qualifier for the secondary; and that is my point. Far too many blanket statements. With many, there is also a clear mis-understanding of electrical facts.

To the gentleman who asked about the box needing to be metallic; the answer is “yes”. The box must be metallic when armor-sheathed cabling is utilized. I had a homeowner wrap the sheathing with bare copper and extend this to the ground screw on the 3-prong receptacle. He was “shocked” and dismayed when I informed him that this was an unsatisfactory practice. I recommended evaluation by a licensed electrical contractor, who gave him the same advice.

I’m not an appraiser. I am a home inspector.

I do not care or note matters relating to “value”. I describe the present condition of the systems covered by my SOP. An electrical system that is functioning in the manner in which it is designed is not defective and is not reported as such. I may recommend a GFCI…which can easily be added to a two wire system…for additional safety.

But as to the value…it’s not my job.

I agree with you to a point James but that is exactly what the WI HI law states.

Calling something out as a defect is not an appraiser’s function or purpose but it is required for the HI.

So like it or not the WI HI is required to make this “value” determination if it even though he is restricted from offering an opinion as to the value of the home by this:

3. Limitations, Exceptions & Exclusions


V. An inspection does not determine the market value of the property or its marketability. ***

“There is nothing inherently wrong with a two-wire system, but the way we use it may be. Today’s electrical appliance needs are far greater than they were 40 or 50 years ago, and using yesterday’s supply to satisfy today’s demand may often become very dangerous.”

This is the very first paragraph of my statement. The rest merely explains why “the way we use it may be”.

And BTW, I alter the “blanket ststement” to coincide with the conditions–rather frequently.

I have lifted many such statements from this board and altered them for my own usage (especially for roofs and some foundation information where I am not particularly strong).

There seems to be some misunderstanding as to the purpose of the ground in a 3 wire appliance or receptacle.

This may help
A more technical explanation for those interested