Every thing around us is pointing to the fact that #12 wire is rated for 20 amps and #14 wire is rated for 15 amps. Outlets are rated for 15 amps and 20 amps accordingly, so why try to find a loophole or a gliche in the code to provide 20 amp power to something that was designed to carry 15 amp power supply???
I have to agree with RR on this one because it is the right thing to do. As mentioned above, some receptacles are rated for both, and that is fine.
If it comes to safety, I believe I will stick to what is conciencly right.
Consider this - the authority responsible for assigning the safety factor for conductors and their rated capacity, is the same authority saying it’s okay to place a 15 amp duplex receptacle on a 20 amp circuit.
You’re saying that you will only follow some of their rules?
So why are we being taught through various education programs that we can not install a 15 amp rated receptacle on a 20 amp circuit?? I am not an electrician and question something that I learn and then changes.
I always was advised by on the job Electrical Foremans that a twenty amp circuit had to have a 20 amp rated receptacle.
Kind of mixed up at this point as to who is right. So what should be called out when this occurrs??
I do not believe any education program is teaching you that…What they are teaching you and many need to listen to this is…you can use a 20A rated receptacle on a 15 A circuit…for standard branch circuits…You can’t use a 15A rated receptacle on a 20A circuit…BUT 99.9% of all the 15A receptacles made today are 15/20A Rated…the NEC even says you can use it for either…not a issue.
anyway…I am not in the office right now…actually was pulling away from a job and used a RANDOM access point floating in the air to send this…I will explain this in more detail when I am back in the office later.
I am REALLY concerned that you find this as a GLITCH or LOOPHOLE…as it is not. Simply has to do with the ratings and the allowances of the product in question. IF 14 AWG said it could be used on 20A circuits…we would do it but the NEC says it can’t…YET without the CLARRIFICATION in the NEC and you simply looked at the chart on 310.16 you would think # 14 AWG holds MORE than 15A…but you need to know CODE to know why this is not the case…
Anyway…I will explain in more "BRAIN TEASING " detail later at the office.
This is true for a single receptacle, not for a duplex receptacle.
I would assume that any advice given, would be the foreman’s interpretation of the NEC. Who is right? The NEC, as interpreted by the AHJ.
When in doubt, defer it to someone else. I have no problem suggesting to my client that they get a qualified second opinion on issues where I am unsure.
Paul, you are a great help and I am still confused.
Let me start over.
My understanding is that you have to have 20 amp rated receptacles for branch circuits fed with a 20 amp breaker with #12 wire.
15 amp receptacles are fed with #14 wire on a 15 amp breaker. Right??
What I am hearing is , you can have a 15 amp rated receptacle on a 20 branch circuit breaker. Something don’t sound right.
I just went down in my basement where I have a basket full of receptacle from job related projects and almost all of them say right on it, that they are either rated for 15 amps only or rated for 20amps. Obviously the 20 amp breakers are readily recognizeable due the horizontal notch.
So is it prudent to install a 20 amp rated receptacle on a 15 am breaker rating?
Is it right to install a 15 amp receptacle on a 20 amp supply.
Not all receptacles purchased at $1.49 will be rated for 15/20 amp capacity.
Not just me and Mr. Spock, Paul and Patrick, too!
What is this world coming to?
Wait.
Mr. Spock can answer that for us.
First contact is not too far away!
Beam me up, Scotty.
Just make sure there’s a margarita waiting for me.
Ok…I am back in the office now so I will explain more…
Ok…Firstly the NEC states the following
Art 406.7
Receptacles, cord connectors, and attachment plugs shall be constructed so that receptacles or cord connectors do not accept an attachment plug with a different voltage or current rating from that for which the device was intended. However, a 20A T-slot receptacle or cord conector shall be permitted to accept a 15 A attachment plug of the same voltage rating. Non-grounding type receptacles and conenctors shall not accept grounding-type attachement plugs.
OK…VERY important…
Art. 210.21(B)(3) says it VERY clear…
Circuit Rating /Receptacle Rating
15 A /NOT over 15 A
20 A /15 or 20 A
30 A /30 A
40 A /40A or 50A
50 A /50 A
Ok…now…to clarify…If their is a SINGLE receptacle it must MEET its rating…ie: 20A single receptacle MUST be 20A…no IFS ands or BUTTS…
The code says and I quote:
Receptacle Ratings - Where connected to a branch circuit supplying two or more receptacles or outlets, receptacles ratings shall conform to the values listed in Table 210.21(B)(3), or where larger than 50A, receptacle rating SHALL NOT be less than the branch circuit rating.
So I posted the chart ABOVE…notice on the 20A circuit it says 15A or 20A…this allows EITHER a 15 or 20A receptacle to be used…now since most new ones are DUAL rated anyway…still would not matter since the NEC ( who knows WAY more than WE do as to why they do things the way they do…) says it is FINE…who am I to question them.
So…to debate WHY on a 15A circuit you can’t put a 20A receptacle is MOOT…since a 15A receptacle will most always be on a 15A circuit…but the code is saying…even on 20A circuits you can use a 15A receptacle…
Dont get it confused…this should REALLY not be an issue to worry about…UNLESS you are doing a dedicated circuit with only (1) receptacle yoke…The it has to be RATED for the circuit exactly…
Code Check Forth Edition, page 26 says 20A circuits with 15 amp duplex receptacl are O.K.
If you write up the 15Amp Receptacle, and the Sellers Hires an Electrician to Check out the circuits, how does Mr. Spck explain away the resulting Bill?
Anything else I make a note of it on my report and suggest consulting with a licensed electrical contractor for details. I also suggest that the electrical contractor provide a report in writing on his or her findings. I am not going to make the determination about the specifics of code. I am performing a limited visual home inspection, not an electrical code inspection. Unless you are a licensed electrician I suggest you keep it simple.
As long as you don’t mind explaining to the Electrician why you think he should change all the 15A receptacles on 20A circuits when they are permitted by the NEC, sure go ahead. Someone might send you the bill for his time though. I know we are not code inspectors but that doesn’t mean we are unaware of the codes.
Granted, but if you call it out as a defect it will appear to most that you are not wearing doctor Spock’s ears but donkey ears.
Has anybody who disputed the NEC actually taken an electrical class? Some of the people on this thread are the reason we are despised by contractors, buy a f@cking code book already, and if that don’t help buy the comentary.
Okay, I’m diving in here trying to learn something.
There are two different perspectives here right?
Wendy, it would only be wrong if it were a single receptacle, where you could only plug one thing in. This is in the NEC.
Well to some extent. You may not use a 30 amp circuit for lighting and appliance receptacles.
Correct there is nothing wrong with the situation described by the OP niether codewise or safety wise. You could not overload the 15 amp receptacle because any equipment requiring more than 15 amps has a different configuration which will not fit into the 15 amp recep. If you plug 2 10 amp loads into a 15 amp duplex you are still ok because they are rated for 20 amps feed thru, which means the little tabs on the side of the receptacle that connect the two halves together will carry 20 amps. I suppose someone could replace a 20 amp cord with a 15 so it would fit the 15 amp recep and overload it, but the code does not provide for “what ifs”
Now maybe it is a good idea sometimes to use a 20 amp receptacle for durability, but not required. I use them in my shop for heavy loads like an air compressor etc.
