4 point defects

I am just curious what others call out in the 4 point reports, exactly. I have done hundreds, but I know there is alot of debate on what should go in, because the form is so plain. Other than roof leaks or panel issues, it is pretty much up to the inspectors discretion, on what is considered a ‘hazard’.

Mainly I am wondering how many call out missing GFCI issues? If it wasnt code when the home was built, do you still consider it a ‘hazard’ worth mentioning? I havent typically called those out, otherwise it would be on every single 4 point.
Also, what about other issues, such as a tiny bit of mold in a kitchen cabinet, or a missing junction box cover that is out of reach? I call out all of these issues in my client’s report, but not always in the 4 point.
I wish their form was more specific…

I have this debate pretty often. Personally, I’m not worried about a missing gfci here or there, but we’re supposed to call out all missing gfcis within 6 feet of a water source, so you have to do it.

I tell the customer what the rule is, and what I would do if it were my house. Following the standards is easier, and ultimately safer. I’ve had very few questions from insurance on my 4 points.

Who says we are supposed to? That’s the problem I have with the 4 point. The form doesn’t ask that specifically, it only asks about double taps, open breaker tabs, exposed wiring etc… the only other option is to list all hazards.
That is why there is such a discrepancy, It seems they leave it up to the inspector’s discretion. So I tend to leave out anything they don’t specifically ask about, unless it is an immediate life or property danger.

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It’s one of the items that you’re supposed to label as a defect, based on our training. Which 4 point form are you referring too, citizens?

I do not list a recommended a safety upgrade.
It has to be present that does not meet it’s intended purpose.

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What training? The only requirement to do 4 point inspections is that you are a licensed home inspector.

The training required to get you home inspection license. Go back are read internachis standard of inspections.

There is a big difference between internachi certifications, Florida state licensing, and a 4 point inspection. A 4 point is just a basic overview for the insurance companies, it has nothing to do with internachi sop. (You don’t have to be internachi certified to be state licensed)
As far as I know, there is no written requirement anywhere that we are required to notate missing gfci on the 4 point unless an insurance company specifically asks you to do so. Otherwise it would be a standard question on the 4 point.

Im not trying to tell you that you’re wrong, or how to do it right. Just trying to help by giving an answer to a question I’ve asked many times myself.
You’re free to run your business however you’d like. It also sounds like your using the citizens 4point form, which you can again, do it however you’d like. My standard 4 point form asks if gfci and afci are present.
I personally, give the same standards to both a normal inspection and 4 point inspection, primarily since many buyers are skipping the home inspection and just wanting 4points and wind mits

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Yes, I use the citizens, and I have never had any insurance company ask for anything different… I have also asked questions several times, as the form should be more detailed… :grinning:
I wasn’t aware of any other 4 point forms asking about gfi or afci.
Have insurance companies ever required that afci be installed since it asks?
That would be horrible, because it would show up on 90% of my inspections, and cost the buyer or seller thousands every time

Who’s form are you using?

I do the same, depending on when the home was built. There’s a good legend posted here for reference: GFCI's code changes history chart
If it was supposed to be there based on the built date, it goes in the 4-Point. If not, it doesn’t go in the 4-Point, but I still make a note of it via email when the 4-Point is sent to the customer for CYA purposes.

The form I downloaded from nachi a couple years ago.

Do you ever get insurance companies asking you for anything different?

I use the Tower Hill form. Screw Citizens, there’s is a mini home inspection.
TowerHill-4Point Inspection.pdf (169.5 KB)
Here is mine.
Master 4Point.pdf (228.9 KB)
Everyone will except the Tower Hill form except Citizen.

That’s the problem, citizens has to be on the basic citizens form. There’s no information on it. I do my normal 4 point and then I do a second citizens form, just in case.

Also. I hate citizens

I always ask my clients what insurance provider they have. If they say citizens I charge 50 more for the 4 Is point.
Do you have the Fillable citizen’s form?
The only time people use citizens is when they can’t get insurance from anyone else.

I always ask, and it never fails that I need to do a citizens form. Personally, on my house, I’ve had 3 insurance companies take back their proposals (in the last 2 weeks), and I’m going to have to go with citizens.

I do like your idea about upcharging for the citizens form.

Side note. My insurance went from 1200, to 3700. Had a 1700, which turned into 3600. Citizens is at 1600, so im going to have to go that route. I live in a 30 year old house with an 8 year old roof.

Hardly, Citizens is fairly basic.
You may be thinking of the State Farm “4-Point” which is about 37 points…

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