But that is giving them more info??:p:twisted:
Ok you are right again
Screw em all. They must now only accept my form :twisted:
John,
Your form gives the location of the main panel. Do you give locations of sub-panels as well?
If you don’t list the unsafe panel location in the “Unsafe wiring noted” field, do you think that the agent or underwriter know that bathrooms and clothes closets fall under this category?
If the panel location is your only deficiency than this would seem to indicate that there are not any unsafe wiring practices at the property when you know that some exist.
I understand you concern but think that at times it would be redundant.
I do write locations of all panels. Following your logic, then I/we would have to list all unsafe items that are already listed on the form.
ie., Aluminum wire, you would list AL, then call it out as unsafe.
Fuses too?
Missing GFCI would have to list if they are present and any and all locations they should be, same for AFCIs.
You should then list the amps, if it is sufficient and that it unsafe to not have sufficient amps available.
Do you list the panel brand and call out each that you consider unsafe as unsafe?
How about plumbing, do you call out Poly and PEX and list them as possible failures waiting to happen?
Do you list the hot water tank age and then state when it should be replaced?
Do you list missing filler plates and also list them as unsafe?
I do not do it both ways, I give the facts. If the form does not address an issue that should be that is where I insert my observances. A reasonable person reviewing my form should understand that if I list something it is for a reason.
It is up to the insurance company to hire/train people to understand the info. If they do not, they are free to look it up or call me(some do, for other inspectors forms).
I answer the questions on the form. I only add comments if the info is needed and can not be deduced from the data given.
Some good points -
I do list the brand of panel - if they choose not to underwrite an FPE panel it is their call - I don’t list that as a deficiency. Nor do I list AL wiring or fuses as deficiencies although they have their appropriate field to identify that they are present. None of these, however, are in direct violation of the code.
I could add a field to my report to state the location of panels and let the underwriter determine what that means…hmmmm clients might like that better…
(I did have a client ask me to change a report to remove the panel in a clothes closet - said the underwriter didn’t consider it a deficiency - the underwriter, however, wouldn’t ignore it if was on the report - if its OK with them why wouldn’t they ignore it?)
Thanks for the input John and others.
(Wow several threads with differing opinions on 4-Point reporting that didn’t result in a Meeker bashing or a Meeker rant - I’m thrilled!)
Agreed
I am impressed
Coom by ya…
That’s funny right there!
Why aren’t Nachi members using the Nachi Form…If everyone is willy-nilly on there forms the retail inspections will go the way of big business. There is a set form for Wind Mits, a set form for Roof certs, and a set form for 4 points, i;e NACHi
I hear there is a plan afoot to only accept forms from certain entities I hope NACHI members are included…Of course my conspiracy theorist part kicks in every once in a while.
My form has been around longer than the nachi form. There is no set form for 4 points. The nachi form was created so the carriers would accept 4 points from nachi members, before home inspector licensing. Most Carriers used to require a report signed by a contractor and a licensed electrician.
Ouch,quit poking me with that stick.
BECAUSE IT IS WAY TO MUCH.
See now you had to go ahead and ruin Johns happy day.
A 4 point is NOT a mini home inspection.
The InterNACHi form is way to much UNEEDED info.
Please search all posts to find out more about how I feel about that ridiculous form.
ONLY CITIZENS HAS A SET FORM FOR ROOFS. IT IS NOT A STATE FORM.
The insurance companies have the right to ask for whatever they are willing to PAY for.
Most regulation sucks. Why do you want to HAVE to do everything like the next guy.
Make your own decisions.
That is all I am going to say.
Dennis how about posting it so people can see what a 4 point form should look like?
Unless of course you have changed it since I saw your last one.
The fact remains there is an acceptable form to use. We should all be using it.
A lot of work went into getting the Nachi 4 point form approved. Having a 100 different variations of it can’t be good in the long run.
If we all use 1 form we have a better chance of surviving the retail market.
Make no mistake about it…there are entities out there trying to take it all.
Florida likes the WCE method…just not a lot of them.
[quote=“thession, post:33, topic:62537”]
The fact remains there is an acceptable form to use. quote]
Accepted by Citizens. woop eeee. They accept mine on a weekly basis and a HUGE number of other inspectors who submit forms very similar to mine. For some bizarre reason very few will admit it here.
Just because a lot of work went into getting it approved does not mean squat.
If someone owed you 5 dollars would you accept 5000?
That is exactly what citizens is doing to all the people who make the MISTAKE of using the way to in depth form.
How about giving them a Normal 4 point form and telling them to pound sand when they want more? Unless of course they decide to be the client and pay.
If you all did that then you would be getting the better end of the deal instead of being a slave to citizens who by the way in case you forgot does not even pay the bill.
John and I were working to start a Nachi WCE and took alot of abuse from many members. Survive the retail market? Have you seen any re-inspections? We ARE the retail market.
If I remember correctly you guys came pretty damn close. But that is what I am talking about. One company controlling everything for the sake of uniformity. Citizens has a guy who jumps thru hoops in order to get half of the inspection fee. Citizens and other insurers love this guy. It’s only a matter of time before he takes over the retail market too.
All it takes is for the insurers to say…We will only accept forms approved by_________________________.
NO, it is the law. They have to accept from certain licensed individuals.
Great there is a law…As with every law there are loop holes or slick pols flush with lobbiest money.
Sorry for the hijack…these threads take on a life of their own sometimes.
again, have u seen any reinspections? I have and guess what… im not too worried about the other guy making me look bad or doing more for less money cuz guess what… u get what u pay for.Right John? Russ?
The re-inspections I have come across have been weak to say the least.
It is as if many of the fools that have caused the problems are now doing re-inspections.
Many NOT all