William,
Are you listing defects on your 4 points or an overall rating such as, good, fair, poor? My understanding was that the insurance compaines don’t want to know all the issuses just a rating.
The following is taken from one of the form directly from Citizens (they sent this form to me). It does ask for a rating, but it also asks for any deficiencies. The question is - what dificiencies do you list? I list what I see. To me, a good system would have no deficiencies. Can you list a system as good if t doesnt have GFCI’s installed, or double taps? I dont know where you draw the line on this because no one has set up clear guide lines.
I use the ASHI form. That is check list form, but at the end of the electrical section it has a section for comments. Once again, there is no guideline for what should or should not be listed.
I have also attached the Citizens Electrical form that they send out to Electricians to use. It asks if the system is up to current code, asks for a rating, and asks for deficiencies. I guess we can all now get into the debate on what good, fair, or poor.
**1. ****Electrical **
Year service was updated__________ Total Amperage of Service_____________
Is the system sufficient for the load requirement? Yes_______ No_________ Is there any Knob and Tube Wiring in use? Yes_________ No__________
Is there any exposed or unsafe wiring? Yes________ No_________
Condition of Electrical Service? Good________ Fair_______ Poor________
Are there any deficiencies which need correcting? Yes_________ No__________
If yes please describe__________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________________
Were these deficiencies corrected? Yes______ No___________
Aluminum wiring (not the outside connection to the weatherhead. Yes_____ No____
All the electrical connections have been repaired with Copalum Crimp Connectors.
Yes_____ No____
Electrician Signature_____________________
Electrician licensed number_________________Bill
I have never heard of a fire caused by an ungrounded outlet. Remember many things that we plug into an outlet do not have grounds. I am sure that somewhere a fire has resulted from a ungrounded outlet.
Fuse box converted for breakers - I would report as needing addition evaluation as to mfg requirements and specifications.
I do report if some breakers are of a different mfg. and that they MIGHT not be approved for use in the panel that they are installed in,
On the code issue - if I find ONE violation the answer is NO. If I can not find a violation the answer is YES. The code used will be the same that the local building inspector used AND normally the local min. housing standard. Hardwired smoke detectors are local code in most areas that I inspect and they do get tested.
Low service drops do not get reported because in my area this is not under the control of the home owner but under the control of the power company. They must approve it before they hook up. It is their cable
One of my largest hits in my area is that of NO heat. Sometimes just putting batteries in the programmable thermostat which does not require a licensed contractor. I do not know the “Why” at time of inspection.
After doing some thinking on this 4 point subject I am liking the idea of X $$$ if everything is ok and 2 X if I must reinspect.
I would think that this should make everyone happy and also would give the client a good feeling about his home.
Many times I will bring to the attention of the home owner other items not related that need maintenance - Just part of the service
A lot of these items are a matter of personal choice but in the end. Does the client have a good picture of his home.
If he does not like my report he can always burn it and get another inspector
rlb
This is the form that I use for homes over 50 years old being insured with Citizens.
http://www.bellinspection.com/files/Four_Point_Form.doc
As stated earlier in this thread there are many changes that are going to take place over the next few months. These changes should help out our profession given the current situation with the resale market.
“Low service drops do not get reported because in my area this is not under the control of the home owner but under the control of the power company. They must approve it before they hook up. It is their cable.”
Actuallly, this is under the control of the home owner. It is up to them to supply the proper mast and FPL will provide the wires.
I had a talk with one of the FPL guys a while back. There were installing service to a home that had an eight foot drop (an older home that was being upgraded and re-connected). His response what that they dont care about the code - they just hook them up. He said it was up to the city to enforce the code - not FPL. Go figure.
‘Fuse box converted for breakers - I would report as needing addition evaluation as to mfg requirements and specifications.’
There was an earlier post on this subject. There are conversion kits out there that have been tested and UL listed for this purpose. They are supposed to be marked as such. If they are not, your box is no longer UL listed, nor is there any warranty from the manufacturer should something go wrong. To me - that is a must list item and the box needs to be replaced.
I am late in replying to this but your information is totally incorrect.
Please go to www.Citizens.com, choose agent, then forms and instructions. Under rules of conduct for older homes you will find that the ONLY contractor requirement for the Homes over 50 is a State Lc Electrician.
A State Lc Roofer is only required if there are previous claims, the roof is more than 35 years old, or their drive by guy/gal finds issues with the roof.
Individual agents throughout the state interpret what information is required and who can do the inspection. Some even claim that the " Citizens Electrical Form" MUST be filled out. The form at the very top plainly states that it is an example of information required and does NOT have to be used.
ICC Certified Inspectors have not been official approved by Citizens although so far they are not rejecting their credentials. If there were a letter of acceptance from Citizens in writing - I would love to have a copy
The folks on the East coast have told me that info such as distance to Fire Hydrant and Fire station and construction type and age are not required. But- you’d have a hard time getting any agent on the West coast to accept a report without that info.
Some Inspectors refuse to project the remaining life of a roof - that may be where the Roofer misnomer comes from.
We’ve been doing these inspections with the aid of State Lc Electricians for 10 years. JUA, Cypress, Mac Neil, Citizens - have tightened requirements as they have evolved.
When in doubt - make the Insurance Agent provide an example of the information and licensing required - OR- go straight to the underwriter.
Zoe
Fackler Home Inspection, Inc.
Are you sure you have the correct link? It took me to a Canadian bank, not an insurance company.
took me there too
If they aren’t asking questions, don’t volunteer information about any defects you found if you are not asked. Collect your $$ and go. Write the report and send it. Unfortunately, many clients will skip out on paying if they know they won’t get insurance as the result of your report. They don’t understand that they are paying for a service not a result!
If you are asked, you don’t have to lie to assure you get paid. if I do have to answer any questions. I politely state sir/ma’am, I am not an insurance agent I cannot tell what they will say. Your agent will advise once the report is received and reviewed. They may ask “Did I pass or fail”? I state that the 4-point is not pass or fail, it is condition. I am not a licenced insurance agent so I cannot draw a conclusion, or speculate what the insurance company will say.
One could get paid in advance. Or is that not a thing in FL?
A lot of people don’t go for that.
You train them of they’ll train you.
When I implemented getting paid before I left the office, I never got pushback except from an agent or two. And that worked itself out to everyone’s satisfaction quickly.
I now require payment in advance of the inspection. I am willing to show up if they’ve signed the agreement, but most people just pay through the portal rather than on-site.
I had an inspection in June and the lady didn’t pay in advance, so when I finished she was being sorta evasive, but I think it wasn’t for malice, just overwhelmed and didn’t understand the process… Anyway, the REA paid me and got re-imbursed from the buyer a day later. She legitimately assumed there would be multiple inspectors or something and she’d pick the best report. lol. First time buyer, had a hubby that kicked off and left her a few million but he had handled everything in the past. Kinda ditzy I think.
Since then, pay up
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I tell customers credit card payments are due 24 hours in advance or they can pay with cash or personal check at the time of the inspection. Most just pay in advance and no one has ever pushed back. I do offer a discount if paying with cash and about 25% go that route.
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Ditto. While I’ve not done anywhere near the number of inspections as you have, in my micro version of your world, I’ve had the same experience.
I did get tagged into an 11 month neighborhood and those things are popping off like fire crackers. Not a single person has even delayed waiting to pay online. My reputation amongst the neighbors is good. They call, I talk for a few, send off the portal info and they all pay immediately. It’s awesome 
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