# 4 Point of a 2004 **URL:** \ **Category:** Florida and SUNachi Inspectors\ **Created:** [March 1, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433 "2016-03-01T00:17:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mbitterman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mbitterman/32/58274_2.png) [@mbitterman](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mbitterman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:17am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/1 "2016-03-01T00:17:10Z")
New one for me. Just had a client double check with their State Farm agent and sure enough he needs a 4 point done. Anyone have this happen yet? ---
**Author:** ![kjones5](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/cc9497/32.png) [@kjones5](https://forum.nachi.org/u/kjones5)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:22am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/2 "2016-03-01T00:22:19Z")
I did one for a 2005 home because it was a foreclosure. ---
**Author:** ![mbitterman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mbitterman/32/58274_2.png) [@mbitterman](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mbitterman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:30am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/3 "2016-03-01T00:30:41Z")
I know if they have been vacant but this one is occupied. ---
**Author:** ![staylor7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/3da27b/32.png) [@staylor7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/staylor7)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:42am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/4 "2016-03-01T00:42:32Z")
I think State Farm requires a 4 pt. if the home is not new construction. ---
**Author:** ![sfetty](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sfetty/32/331195_2.png) [@sfetty](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sfetty)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:45am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/5 "2016-03-01T00:45:09Z")
Insurance companies can and will do what they want. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:49am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/6 "2016-03-01T00:49:59Z")
> [@sfetty](#): > > Insurance companies can and will do what they want. …as long as it makes them $. ---
**Author:** ![mbitterman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mbitterman/32/58274_2.png) [@mbitterman](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mbitterman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:57am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/7 "2016-03-01T00:57:29Z")
> [@sfetty](#): > > Insurance companies can and will do what they want. Agree, I know about their fancy form but I found it ridiculous on a 2004. Doesn’t matter, we did the home inspection and when the client called back he said his insurance agent has a guy that will do the 4 point and Wind Mitigation for $125. We said good… ---
**Author:** ![sstaggs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sstaggs/32/1777_2.png) [@sstaggs](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sstaggs)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 1:02am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/8 "2016-03-01T01:02:11Z")
Yup, State Farm requires it on newer homes just because. You are also completing an underwriting survey for them on the bottom, hence the kitchen, grounds, pool, and etc… ---
**Author:** ![mgoldenberg](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mgoldenberg/32/89265_2.png) [@mgoldenberg](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mgoldenberg)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/9 "2016-03-01T01:47:59Z")
> [@sstaggs](#): > > Yup, State Farm requires it on newer homes just because. **You are also completing an underwriting survey for them** on the bottom, hence the kitchen, grounds, pool, and etc… Exactly. ---
**Author:** ![mmeeker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mmeeker/32/59432_2.png) [@mmeeker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mmeeker)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 5:14am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/10 "2016-03-01T05:14:56Z")
> [@sfetty](#): > > Insurance companies can and will do what they want. The insurance folks use them as a poor mans home inspection. They screw the dumb a-s home inspectors into giving basically mini home inspections for as little money as possible by saying this is just for insurance. should only take 20 minutes or so according to them. They know their own guys will not do it cheap enough so they go to the now insta pros in all things home related. Plus they blame you suckers when something goes wrong. ---
**Author:** ![gbell](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gbell/32/60114_2.png) [@gbell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gbell)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 10:39am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/11 "2016-03-01T10:39:20Z")
I did one a few months ago on a 2013 built. ---
**Author:** ![evandeven](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/evandeven/32/373798_2.png) [@evandeven](https://forum.nachi.org/u/evandeven)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:37am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/12 "2016-03-01T11:37:32Z")
> [@gbell](#): > > I did one a few months ago on a 2013 built. 2015…and a wind mit…insurance company had a guy…75 bucks for both. ---
**Author:** ![temmes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/temmes/32/151665_2.png) [@temmes](https://forum.nachi.org/u/temmes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:48am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/13 "2016-03-01T11:48:20Z")
Beware of the lazy insurance agents who insist You must GO BACK after doing a typical 4 Pt and take loads of external and internal pictures if the property had a sink hole claim on record. I’ve spoken to a few of my agents and they tell me that it is the AGENT’S responsibility to take the pictures and submit them with the 4 Pt. Also, I’ve just been told that Citizens insists on a Roof Cert to go along with a Wind Mit…as the Wind Mit does not comment on the condition of the roof. Of course, it never has…what’s next? ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 12:14pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/14 "2016-03-01T12:14:04Z")
> [@temmes](#): > > Beware of the lazy insurance agents who insist You must GO BACK after doing a typical 4 Pt and take loads of external and internal pictures if the property had a sink hole claim on record. > > I’ve spoken to a few of my agents and they tell me that it is the AGENT’S responsibility to take the pictures and submit them with the 4 Pt. > > Also, I’ve just been told that Citizens insists on a Roof Cert to go along with a Wind Mit…as the Wind Mit does not comment on the condition of the roof. > Of course, it never has…what’s next? If the roof is twenty years old they will require a roof cert(or four point). ---
**Author:** ![temmes](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/temmes/32/151665_2.png) [@temmes](https://forum.nachi.org/u/temmes)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 1:31pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/15 "2016-03-01T13:31:11Z")
I know that, but the roof was only 8 yrs old. Guess it’s always good to check the "rules de juer (my French sucks). ---
**Author:** ![mbitterman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mbitterman/32/58274_2.png) [@mbitterman](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mbitterman)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 2:08pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/16 "2016-03-01T14:08:57Z")
> [@jshishilla](#): > > If the roof is twenty years old they will require a roof cert(or four point). Nope, not just on older roofs anymore, just did an inspection last week on a home that was built in 1990, new roof in 2006. Did the Wind Mitigation and Citizen’s kicked it back and told insurance agent the permit was not enough for the age of the roof, they wanted to know how many remaining years it had as well. They told the agent they wanted a roof cert or 4 point. We did the 4 point on this one because it had a lot of upgrades and looked good. ---
**Author:** ![jshishilla](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jshishilla/32/1188_2.png) [@jshishilla](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jshishilla)\ **Post date:** [March 1, 2016, 11:30pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/17 "2016-03-01T23:30:44Z")
> [@mbitterman](#): > > Nope, not just on older roofs anymore, just did an inspection last week on a home that was built in 1990, new roof in 2006. Did the Wind Mitigation and Citizen’s kicked it back and told insurance agent the permit was not enough for the age of the roof, they wanted to know how many remaining years it had as well. They told the agent they wanted a roof cert or 4 point. We did the 4 point on this one because it had a lot of upgrades and looked good. Sounds like you had someone that did not know what they were doing. Is it possible your wind mit was missing information since it was “kicked back”? It would only be required for the remaining life if there was an issue with the roof permit “dates”. I have no idea why one would submit a four point when all they need is “the useful remaining life” of the roof, it seems the roof cert would have been much easier. ---
**Author:** ![wcollier](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/wcollier/32/180057_2.png) [@wcollier](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wcollier)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 1:59am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/18 "2016-03-02T01:59:14Z")
So I’ve been told State Farm requires a wind and 4 on anything 6 most and older. I don’t do the SF 4 points. Was also told that they now use ID or DM for their inspection needs now. They can call them because I’m not doing it. ---
**Author:** ![mmeeker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mmeeker/32/59432_2.png) [@mmeeker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mmeeker)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 2:15am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/19 "2016-03-02T02:15:20Z")
> [@sfetty](#): > > Insurance companies can and will do what they want. That is the bottom of it. You are stuck with whatever underwriter gets your report. I believe their is a lot of turnover in that position as I see things change in an instant and a month later the same guy is long gone. Most do not know much and just agree with whatever the picture says. It must be that way or I cannot explain how so many inspections I have reviewed have had the discounts they had before I got there. Now for the truth I have also changed many things since I first started doing wind mitigation and 4 point inspections. My best advice is unless you learn something new or something changes your thought always do it the same way and try to have specific definitions on how yo come to your conclusions are the same until times, the form or your mind changes. I can at least look at any jury and say the reason I did this is because of this, be it the way I was taught or the way I interpret it. I try not to change those things until needed. ---
**Author:** ![wsiegel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/3d9bf3/32.png) [@wsiegel](https://forum.nachi.org/u/wsiegel)\ **Post date:** [March 2, 2016, 2:56am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433/20 "2016-03-02T02:56:15Z")
The original intent of the 1802 was to know the condition of the roof, not just the year is it was installed. Why would they want to issue insurance on a 15 year old roof that is at the end of its life. They know the form is flawed. And it has recently been brought to their attention again. Because no manual was ever written and no one will go outside the written letter of the form, I think you are going to start to see roof certifications required on all roofs over 10 years of age, may be even younger roofs. This will be their way of having inspectors acutally comply with the intent of the form without having to spend millions of dollars re-writing it. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/4-point-of-a-2004/104433.md?page=2)