I personally feel that more information and pictures are a welcomed addition to any inspection. I do not feel that upping the standard is a bad thing. If people want 10,000 pictures, BINGO…and I will give it to them.
Just because people here are willing to do them for $2 is not my fault. Try giving more and getting more. Upping the standard and charging more…such a concept, try it some time.
sometimes the family pet will get your insurance dropped. They have a list
John, I guess you didn’t get my point. I’m all for customer service, but I am also for protecting inspectors from being abused. We were never required to provide photos for the insurance companies. Now they are demanding them. Besides that your taking money from someone else that use to get paid to provide the photos the insurance companies needed. Agents would hire people to go out and take the 4 elevation photos. They’ve hired people for this for years. Now you’re giving it away. I’ve always taken photos and keep them on file for proof of accuracy (if needed). Now they demand we do it for them. Are you getting paid that extra money for your time? The additional time to add all the photos to each report? No your not. I call it self respect for your work. Make them pay you for what your worth and the work your doing. Your analogy can continue to snowball…Why are you charging the customer for wind mits and 4 Points then? Do them for free so the agents will provide your name for full home inspections. It’s just customer service right? When does it stop? Make them pay you for what your worth.
I’m just sayin…
I agree with you. Problem is around here we have people that continue to lower their prices. There is nothing wrong with upping the standards, but at the same time up the fees for the work you provide. I’ve heard so many BS stories from inspectors who say they’re going to raise their fees because of the new form or the additional work, etc., only to find out they lowered their prices and then go into your agents office and brag how their fee is cheaper than the other guys…
Low balling will always be around, there is no eliminating it. So then what? When you refuse to play the pricing game there is only one arena left and that is the quality and service game. Sooner or later the lowballer shoots himself in the foot and loses the work either due to poor service or poor quality. It will always eventually happen, you just have to wait it out.
Sure the next lowballer will come into the game, but if your giving you clients professional service, professional results they will pay the extra money if they feel you are providing value for your service.
People here always look for advice from the seasoned professionals who have been doing it for years and years, to me most of them are washed up and too set in their ways. I look at the young, newer, hungry inspectors they seem to think of doing things better, faster and are much more savy with technology. But you have to find a niche to really make it, something no one else provides. Some only have one thing to provide and that is a low price. They will soon lose out and move on to another profession because they will eventually realize that quality always wins in the long run.
Some people here do wind mitigation for $40 and then argue about all the photos they must take. Would they be all up in arms if they were making $200 instead of $40. I would think not, but they cannot compete in a quality market, so they must go cheap and the quality guy refuses to go cheap so he ups the quality so the person feels they get value for the money.
So who is winning, apparently the quality guy, because before the pictures were not needed and now they are. It’s just the cheap guy is too stupid to raise his prices and will soon be on the side of failure and if they don’t fail, they will yell, scream and go to message boards thinking of ways to complain.
If you thinking low balling is going away, it never will, but then again those people never really seem to be around for a long time…coincidence?
Let them lower their prices all they want. It is a path to self extinction. It is why there are several individuals from other lines of work doing these inspections…most of them on the cheap. They haven’t yet realized that the low ball philosophy, the better to have 10 bucks even though it cost me 20, mentality, is a failed business model.
As for these inspections, I personally think the form,a one page form is enough. All the 4-point was supposed to be was proof of upgrades to certain systems, which, had people pulled permits, would be a very easy thing to verify.
It has now morphed into a mini-home inspection and along those lines, now insurance companies are starting to require complete home inspections.
Glad this is my last year to be at the mercy of the insurance company! 
I have always done them the same way. I have never lowered my prices. But you know that. Call D&D they are cheap;)
I will typically include elevation pictures and a shot or two of the roof covering. I haven’t had an issue with an agent asking for more photos. I do however take much more pictures and save these for reference only. I don’t necessarily believe good service is synonymous with lots of pictures. Good service entails many other aspects, such as making yourself available after hours if needed, being flexible with scheduling, personable interaction with both client and agents and willingness to provide as much information as requested within reason. By this last comment I mean, if an agent requested a few more pictures on a report, I would most likely provide it. That to me, would be providing good service. But to just throw in an abundance of pictures and think that because you provide more pictures than someone else, you are now a provider of good service, is an erroneous train of thought in my estimation. Nor do I think that by providing an abundance of pictures automatically justifies a rate increase. My rates for 4 points is set by what I feel works for me in my market. I do not give them away nor do I gouge anyone for them. In fact, I’ve performed many free of charge to elderly widows who in my estimation are being gouged by the insurance companies.
Of course, I don’t knock someone else for doing so. If you feel that providing 40 pictures of a 4 point inspection is good service, then by all means, do so. I feel I provide good service and give the agents what they need. And I think that’s the key.
Bert
You planning on retiring or something???..
Bert
Have a friend whose insurance company cancelled his insurance when one of those “helpful” inspectors took all kinds of unnecessary photos of his home. Apparently they did not like an extension ladder that was lying horizontally along the back wall of his home. When you take a lot of glamor shot photos of the home you are revealing information to the insurance company that is NOT germane to the purpose of the inspection. I doubt anyone will ever convince some inspectors they may be doing more harm to their customer than good, well, because you can’t tell them anything…they already know it all. Their main focus is on themselves, making more and more money at the expense of the general public and a more than willingness accomplice by pandering to the insurance industry. Keep doing what you are doing and eventually you will kill your golden egg laying goose.
You gentlemen have enlightened me. I had no idea being an ACA that pictures could cause my clients to loose insurance. I will stop immediately and tell everyone to return the 10K+ insurance inspections that we have done to me and remove all images. We will also not do anymore insurance inspections. If we do and the agent asks for images I will tell them no, why would I want to give them what they need to write the policy. I will also stop arguing with fools. 
Oh, pictures do not cause people to loose insurance anymore than they cause people to not buy a home. The conditions of the home do, get it right.
I have never had a problem with 4 points. I include aprox 24 pics with each. But please, keep doing what you have found works for you…Most of my competitors only make me look good! 
John, that is a classic straw man argument. You have ignored the statements and of course gone to the opposite end of the continuum. NO body said don’t take ANY pictures, nor did anyone suggest returning the money or the inspections. In the rush to defend your position you have revealed it. What most are saying is simply do the damned inspection straight, follow the outline. ONE of the major reasons these inspections are ALL over the place and do not follow a single established criteria is because of the GD inspectors doing whatever the hell they get into their pea sized brains to do.
Or as I like to say, they are complete suckasses. They care only about the insurance companies that send them the work and they care nothing about the clients that pay them their fees.
I make damn sure to try not to include any photos of anything that is not being inspected. Like Dennis said some lose their insurance because of a pet some because of a trampoline etc…
If you do not care and you feel it is the condition of the house and not your asinine pictures then you are crap.
John, I’ve always had a lot of respect for you. Still do. Consider you an expert in what you do. Even asked for your advice. But, do you typically consider those who have an opposing opinion to yours as fools?
Bert
I personally think the only “fool” here is John Shishilla. In his short career he has found ways to do THOUSANDS of Wind Mitigations, do them at a higher price and do them faster. That fool gives his infomation away to people who have no idea what they are doing, do them for $40 and have problems getting work.
His kindness has lead to his competition using his forms and going to his classes, which he taught for free, and take business away from him do to his generosity. I wish that “fool” would just shut up, keep all his wisdom to himself (and friends) and just let the $40 Gurus run the show. $40 and still can’t get work…man those are the future of the trade.
John stop being a fool and stop giving these people information that do not need. So you have done thousands of these inspections and can get them done within 20 minutes correctly and signed and sent off to the proper people AFTER having a QA check. Your nothing but a fool my friend.
The appraisers are starting to have the same problem. One of them just called me and told me that the underwriter wants him to verify that an addition was permitted. Definitely not withing the scope of an appraisal, but you know for sure it will become the norm because the underwriter will find someone to do them at no extra cost.
I understand where most of you guys are coming from. The big thing I see here is the ones who shout the loudest are the ones with the lowest prices and putting all those picture that were never required on these forms. Until people stand up and say no it will continue to happen. Its just like going the the ball game and ******** about that $9.00 beer, yet you still go and buy it. When this industry goes back to being about the inspection industry and not each individual inspector will be when all this bulls**t will stop. Until then, good luck and may the cheapee win.
Or something! :mrgreen:
Bert that was mostly sarcasm and was not meant to offend anyone. What is aggravating is people claiming that their friend’s brother’s cousin had their policy canceled because of picture is not helpful to anyone. Many inspectors do not realize all that happens with agents and underwriters. Many companies send other to take pictures even after you do a four point. So lets say you do not take a picture of the pool slide. The picture taker comes out later and guess what happens, policy cancelled. Now if the agent knows ahead of time, plans can be made or the slide can go away or written with a different company.
Some of the people commenting are running $40 specials, some have not changed what they do in 10 years and do not understand that other things have. Others have not done the volume of inspections we have nor do they have the relationship with the agents or underwriters that we do. We communicate with agents and underwriters to get the best deal and policy for the client. If an agent needs an image to include with a policy would you not provide it even though you are there with a camera. Many companies pay $7-$15 dollars to have those pictures taken, I will not drive around for price.
On an open forum many here are making inspectors look like morons and they know it and do not care. That is the truly sad part.
Finally many do not know what pictures I include with my four points.
Russ is correct, I should not share what I do with many because I take the abuse and help my competition. I can only share what I do, as it has worked well for years, for me. My only desire is to help the inspector that wants to grow and do better. I do get passionate when others make inspectors look like fools. I care about the future of this profession and plan to be doing it for many more years, unlike some here.
If I offended you I do not mean to offend anyone. I will not comment anymore.
I too have stayed off the mb somewhat do to the backlash. Sometimes people just dont want help.