A little overwhelming

I really agree with Brian. I used to call double taps out all the time but a lot of things allow for them. Check the panels. The labeling tell you a lot of what is right and what is wrong. They also tell you where the grounding screw will be usually. I really can’t see much from your pictures tbh. I try and take multiple angles of electrical panels. Double or triple tapped grounds are often allowed. Neutrals I call out. Hots double check the breaker or panel labeling.

I taught electricity for 35 years. Completely wired several houses and upgraded wiring in remodels/flips including my own house. I have had many electrical code inspections done and passed with flying colors. I think I know what I am talking about. I usually say something like this…Some cloth covered wire insulation was present. Although installation and usage of this wiring was typical at the time of installation, today’s construction no longer uses this outdated wire insulation. Client is advised to consult with a licensed electrician for further information.

If going to use the trademark “Romex” to refer to NM cable this may be more appropriate “Romex®” just like “Twistlock ®” is a trademark.

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Ya know, I was gonna give you the benefit of the doubt, until you wrote this…

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Is it possible he taught wrong for all 35 years? I know a plumber that taught for 40 years, err, piped I mean, and installed 1000s of water heaters :smiley:

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How often do we hear contractors claim… “I’ve been doing it that way for over 30 years…!”

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I think the confusion usually happens when inspectors describe braided cloth-sheathed NM cable as “cloth-insulated.” In the OP’s pictures, I see cloth-sheathed NM, not cloth-insulated wire.

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Exactly, and a 35 year ‘teacher’ should know that!

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I agree and the problem is with using the term “cloth insulated wire” to describe the conductor insulation type in the first place. The insulation on the old tinned copper is not cloth it’s rubber. If the industry stopped using the incorrect term cloth insulated much of the confusion would disappear.

If this is what HI’s are being taught in their study materials it needs to be changed.

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You can clearly see that the “cloth” sheathed NM has rubber insulated conductors in several of the photos.

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I don’t see any rubber insulated conductors. Which photo?

As far as doing it wrong, I suppose that could be, however, I think I would have been called out once and a while by the electrical inspectors? Never did but did get educated a few times on what to expect when the “new codes” come out.

I have worked with horse owners for many years, and you can argue with them all day about the correct way to do the same thing. Home Inspectors, I included, are sort of the same way. I learned, when working with horse owners, to listen, learn, and do what I feel is correct. I would still right this “Old Wiring” up as a concern in my report. I could see a lawsuit where the house burns, and the insurance company investigates and finds my report didn’t mention the older wiring. In fact, many insurance companies won’t insure homes with older wiring…that should speak volumes. At the end of the day, safety is my number one priority.
Here is an excerpt from the attached article I read.

*"Aging electrical systems in older homes can be a source of *
*arc faults, either through normal wear and tear or because the *
*systems cannot accommodate the greater demands of modern *
*appliances. Circuits can also be overloaded by providing *
electricity to too many appliances, often through power cords."

Interesting read…

“Going Green” May Make You “See Red” | Firehouse

Most/all of that can also be applied to modern wiring!

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Bare (naked) ground wires connected to the Ground Buss are fine.
Double tapping (two obvious independent electrical circuits) hooked into one single brakes is no good. For future reference and knowledge, this is no good because the electrical load of one circuit added to a second circuit may overload the drain request from that breaker and 1) overheat the wires with the consequential fire hazard induced and 2) simply not provide the adequate trigger (break the circuit timely / interrupt the flow of current to a piece of equipment timely) or even worst, interrupt the flow of current to a piece of equipment in use, because another equipment could be active at the same time and drain more current than the trigger current of the specific breaker.

But Brian is right, in some (selected) cases, there are circuit breakers designed to take two circuit simultaneously. Our job is to observe, note and report. If you see the double tapping in the main panel, and you have no time (you are not a Master Electrician nor a BSEE) to go around the house/dwelling to further evaluate the proper distribution of the electrical loads throughout the place, you simply… Recommend further evaluation by a Licensed Master Electrician",… BANG…! You are safe and within the Minimum SoP. Do not attempt to go over your pay grade level.
Old houses have old electrical panels and many add-ons to the original electrical design. They won’t look nice and properly combed like a new construction. You will find old conductors and new conductors. Some owners hire a guy to add a new circuit, or equipment and the installer is not electrically educated nor licensed. i.e. New HVAC equipment. They will do their best, but not necessarily to Code.

Why?
What information are we looking for?
Is there something going on that I can’t see? If I can’t see it, you can’t see it, and you didn’t test it as bad, why do I need to pay more than your Inspection Fee for another opinion?

When I recently sold a house, the Inspector called out unjustified “recommend further investigation” (because he didn’t know what he was looking at). The buyer demanded it be further evaluated, on my dime. Came back as “Nothing Wrong Here”. Sent the bill to the REA, and she paid it. Or else… :face_with_symbols_over_mouth:

I did not file a complaint at the Home Inspection Board, but I would have if the REA didn’t settle up.

You can’t be recommending further evaluation if you can’t show cause, or a significant deficiency as laid out in the HI Rules.
You are allowed to go beyond the HI SOP, “If your qualified to do so”. In my case the roof shingles had a valley weave rather than a cut valley, which they don’t do around here. HI recommended further evaluation by a roofer, for replacement of the roof as it was installed incorrectly.

Safe from what? The monkey your trying to get off your back, onto someone else? You call it wrong, the monkey is still hanging around.

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WARNING: A lot of misinformation is being posted on this thread, tread carefully!

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Thanks! When in doubt and pressed for time, “CONSULT A PROFESSIONAL”

Mr Andersen, I appreciate you being straight forward and being a great resource.

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Thank you for your input

Thank you!