Afci ?

Specific Inspection Topics Electrical Inspections
21

Absolutely hilarious!

Out here, the standard CAR purchase contract states that the buyer shall pay for any damage caused by buyers’ inspections. Consequently, all I have to do is explain the ramifications of ol’ granny dieing in the back bedroom, or the computer being fried from the power surge when it is turned back on, or granny dieing back in, say, Harrisonburg, Virginia, because the doctor left a voice mail for authorization to do brain surgery and grandson never got the message because I tested the AFCI and erase all the messages. I have not had a single Client in 6 years and thousands of inspections ask me or my employees to test the AFCI or GFCI once I explain that if any damage is caused, they will have to pay for it as per the purchase contract.

It helps to be familiar with the purchase contract itself so that one can discuss the contract intelligently with Clients, Realtors, etc. They are quite impressed by my knowledge about who gets to pay for things that I might damage, destroy, or kill.

A good follow-up 3-5 days after the report was delivered, and another follow-up 10-14 days after the report was delivered, and another follow-up 30 days after the inspection, and another follow-up once one knows that escrow has closed, and another follow-up 30 days after escrow has closed, seems to get my Clients to do things.

I did a re-inspection today, four months after the original inspection. Consequently, it was really a “consultation” at this point because I wasn’t re-inspecting repairs from the seller, or anything else like that. My Client simply wanted to know if things were working as they were supposed to. I took the inspection report with me, and after he was finished with his questions, I asked him about things I noted in the report:

Did he install carbon monoxide alarms? Yep.
Did he install some additional smoke alarms? Yep.
Did he have a GFCI outlet installed for the spa bathtub? Yep.
Was he testing the AFCI breakers monthly? Yep.
Was he testing the GFCI outlets monthly? Yep.
Was he testing the carbon monoxide and smoke alarms monthly? Yep.

He even showed me his maintenance sheet; I think ART has been moonlighting on me! I charged him $99 per hour, which would have been $198, but he wrote me a check for $225. What more can I say?

Customer service is customer service. As my wise ol’ grandmother said, “Don’t touch that AFCI!” :mrgreen:

22

I hate to be one, but shortcuts on safety controls are not customer service, this is one area I hope new inspectors don’t take your advice.

23

NOW if that aint graspin at straws I don’t know what is…all the clients I know would PREFER to know the GFCI or AFCI’s ( that I am paying for as a buyer ) actually work properly. The HI should make it VERY clear their JOB and INTENT to actually WORK for their money and inspect the house like it needs to be inspected and that means testing DEVICES that save lives which GFCI and AFCI’s do…lets look at the liability of a faulty GFCI that did not function and little SUZY dies from…and it spills back to the HI who would not test the GFCI’s as the SOP says they should do…or many state requirements for HI’s as well…my wallet says TEST em…Again if ole’ granny is up in the bedroom on a ventilator…and they know I am doing a home inspection and aware I will be testing things…maybe she just deserves to DIE…not my call…I have a job to do…:wink:

24

A little grumpy this morning aren’t we? :stuck_out_tongue:

25

nah…just a point. HI’s simply can’t HOLD the clients hands forever you know. Once the HI does their job in making the client aware of everything they will be checking and testing ( which they should do before every inspection to clarify the process and build a relationship for the inspection ) the client should be clearly aware of what will be tested.

1.) If the GFCI wont reset…fine…then it needed taking care of anyway and really not my concern if it does not reset…tell whom you need to right away and move on.

2.) If the AFCI does not trip in the panel…fine…if the breaker wont reset…fine…tell whom you need to and move on…really not the concern of the HI as you are simply doing your job and FINDING the defective items and testing items that CAN and DO save lives.

Just do the testing in the panel after you have tested the receptacles and so on around the house, make the panel one of the last stops in the inspection so you can test then…again the approved method of testing AFCI’s is at the breaker itself and the other methods ( Suretest and so on ) are only additional confirmation items…the button on the breaker is the approved and proper method for testing the devices.

AS for the Granny deserving to die…well thats just a metaphor…honestly…:slight_smile:

26

Well, first, I didn’t let one of my Clients die if they followed my recommendations before close of escrow/before home inspection contingency period expired. Quite simple, really.

If anyone died, it was probably before close of escrow, so it was the seller’s fault.

I worked quite closely with my attorneys and insurance providers in letting them know exactly what I do and don’t do.

Usually not, since that would fall under negligence, which is what E&O is for. No one ever gets sued for breach of contract.

However, none of my inspectors, nor I, ever “deliberately bypassed part of an inspection.” My company simply has different inspection and report writing protocols than yours. There is nothing wrong with that.

Now that’s a loud radio! Still doesn’t take care of the seller’s programmable equipment, though. I can see myself running all over the place in some of these monster mansions resetting the microwave and oven clocks, resetting the VCR clocks, and resetting all the clocks in the 17 bedrooms. Yeah, right!

It is important to be persistent and consistent in what one does, regardless of what it is that one does. I’ve been persistent and consistent since my first day in business, October 15, 2001, and done thousands of inspections. No problems because of my report writing ability and my customer service follow-ups. I, of course, shall continue unless legal requirements change or if technology starts putting double battery backups in all these technogadgets.

27

Perhaps you meant, “that means testing DEVICES or having them tested that saves lives.” It’s just a question of when they get tested. If my inspection protocols, which are very persistent and consistent in that I don’t deviate from them, determine that something cannot be done at the time of the inspection, then I recommend that it be done before close of escrow, and sometimes I recommend that it be done before the home inspection contingency period expires.

I don’t really care what others do, as long as what they do, they do persistently and consistently. It’s when one changes one’s protocols with no valid reason (legal requirements, etc.) that usually gets one into trouble.

Let’s say that I choose to test every GFCI outlet, but that big ol’ freezer in the garage prevents you from testing that one. What do you do? Move the freezer? Sorry, I’m not a mover, and I don’t know any professional movers who are home inspectors. And if you’re able to test it, and it’s one of those that now will not reset, what are you doing to do with the freezer full of food since the sellers are on vacation in Hawaii for the next week. I’m not even going there.

So before I ever opened my doors for business, my attorneys, insurance providers, and I determined my inspection and report writing protocols and we have stuck with them persistently and consistently for 6 years.

I, on the other hand, am a guest in the seller’s property, and I have no intention of killing anyone (even if she does deserve to die), nor cause property damage. As I explain to my Clients in my contract and verbally at the inspection, “Here’s what I do and don’t do (“I don’t unplug anything, nor plug it in, so outlets that have stuff plugged into them will not be tested”), what I can and cannot do in the State of California, and, when it comes to personal injury and property damage, what I will and will not do. Additionally, this agreement tells my various insurance companies that I am authorized to be here on someone else’s property doing work that can cause disability, death, damage, or destruction, the Four D’s.” That gets a chuckle and sets their expectations.

When one is in the service business, one must, first and foremost, persistently and consistently, manage one’s Clients’ expectations. Therein lies the secret.

Good “luck” to all who don’t have business, inspection, and report writing protocols in place yet!

28

Exactly! Thank you!

As I stated in a previous post, manage the Clients’ expectations.

That’s how I’m able to offer choices, by managing the Clients’ expectations. I realize that it requires a different mindset in that one has to have the ability to think differently, to be creative, to listen to people about their needs/wants/desires/financial situation, but first and foremost, persistently and consistently, manage their expectations. If we sold groceries, the expectations are managed by the food processors. If we sold toys, the expectations are managed by the manufacturers. If we sold real estate, the expectations are managed by Realtors. We sell services, though, and we’re independently owned and operated, so we are the only ones who can manage our Clients expectations.

So, I’ll say it again, work with your attorneys and insurance providers to create your business, inspection, and report writing protocols, and then stick to them persistently and consistently unless legal requirements or technology changes.

Remember that I never walk roofs? Still don’t. Same situation. Manage one’s Clients’ expectations by explaining them (a) on the phone, and/or (b) in the contract, and/or (c) at the beginning of the inspection, and/or (d) at the end of the inspection, and/or (e) in the report, and/or (f) in one’s many customer service follow-ups, if necessary.

29

I can see the wisdom of both sides of this debate concerning AFCI and GFCI testing.

If you delete the phone messages, it could cause a big stink (most of the time not).
If the meat thaws it could piss-off the owner. (better check it before you leave).
If there is even a remote chance that granny could die, I would not touch it,
but offer a disclaimer about my concerns. (what if it was your mother?).

Not everyone can move a sick person from their bed, because another inspector
is coming in the morning. I would hate to debate a prosecutor at the grand
jury about my right to do testing, regardless of killing grandma. Negligent
homicide laws might trump the SoP…

Balance between the SoP and real world concern is wisdom IMHO.

Do no harm (if possible).

I like RR story about the house flooding. Makes a good point on why it
is risky to turn on a water valve, without someone inside to watch for you.
If I don’t have someone inside, I will not turn it on… and even then, I
try not to.

30

lol…man keep it simple…the HI should inspect and test as they should and don’t worry about the after effects of GFCI or AFCI’s being shut off…they NEED to be in order to have them tested properly…otherwise…I hear ya…

31

lol…look if someone has their grandma in a bedroom on a ventilator ( as in the funny example ) then I think that is a FAR FETCHED possibility…was just using it for a point…

Either way…no one can EVER convince me ( no one ) that testing GFCI’s and AFCI’s are wrong…seen too many faulty ones that were only detected by testing them with the buttons…so thats my protocol…only a suggestion to others…since what you do does not effect my business so it does not concern me…:wink:

32

Not worry about the after effects? Wow! I guess I’m just a worry wart. Might be simple in Virginia. Ain’t so simple here in San Diego.

That’s why it’s important for one to work with one’s own attorneys and insurance providers in creating business, inspection, and reporting protocols for one’s locale.

33

Did anyone say it was wrong? Paul, you fail me. :frowning:

34

People are ALWAYS too shy to speak their mind Ray…We just happen to be two that are not…:wink:

35

I dont fail ya fella…I call it GREAT conversation and I LIFT You UP…lol…I was speaking more on myself really…it is something I am strongly convinced about…but its all good fella…I know how things are in ole’ CALI…someone FARTS and the lawyers are sniffing just to see IF they have a case against someone…I hear ya brother…honestly…was just my view is all…nothing more.

36

ROTFFMAO. :margarit: