Another Association With Money & Power Wants to Fix Our Profession!

Does that mean that we will not be attending this meeting?

The real difference between ASTM based reporting and SoP based reporting is that ASTM reports are created from a list of client needs whereas SoP reporting is full of hundreds of lines of disclaimer information, hundreds of lines of useless information commonly known as fluff and when a defect is discovered it is then referred to an “expert” for further evaluation. I challenge anyone to Google “Home Inspection” “Sample Reports” and look at the trash that fills out reports to 30 pages so we can comply with an SoP that was never meant to serve our clients but to cover our A$ses.

Is it any wonder that our profession is languishing in the backwaters of real estate transactions?

Joe,

ASTM 2810 is ful of BLANKET disclaimers. It does not promote a single format for the property condition report. If it did, then Porter Valley wouldnt have created a new product. It kind of states what should be included, but then states that if you and the client agree to omit something, its okay. It states that ADA requirements are beyond the scope of the inspection, unless you decide to include it, that is. It states that if permanent access to the roof is not a pert of the structure that, nah, you dont have to even look at it.

I actuallt believe that a standard of practice or standard of care are about the same as the ASTM “standard” of no real standard. Its a fluid standard, like oil on the mechanic’s floor.

That’s why I said it was funny who’s convention it was being held at.

FROM ASTM 2810


3. Significance and Use

3.1 UseThis guide is intended for use on a voluntary basis
by parties who desire to obtain a baseline PCA of commercial
**real estate. This guide also recognizes that there are varying
levels of property condition assessment and due diligence that
can be exercised that are both more and less comprehensive
than this guide, and that may be appropriate to meet the
objectives of the user
. **


****Furthermore, no implication is intended that use of
this guide be required in order to have conducted a property
condition assessment in a commercially prudent and reasonable
manner. Nevertheless, this guide is intended to reflect a
reasonable approach for the preparation of a baseline PCA.

TAKEN FROM ANOTHER ASTM STANDARD… 2810 FOR COMMERCIAL INSPECTIONS


YOU TELL ME…


3. Significance and Use


3.1 UseThis guide is intended for use on a voluntary basis
by parties who desire to obtain a baseline PCA of commercial
**real estate. This guide also recognizes that there are varying
levels of property condition assessment and due diligence that
can be exercised that are both more and less comprehensive
than this guide, and that may be appropriate to meet the
objectives of the user
. **


****Furthermore, no implication is intended that use of
this guide be required in order to have conducted a property
condition assessment in a commercially prudent and reasonable
**manner. **

ASTM’s Commercial Standard is nothing more than something in writing that one can point to to say “see… the fact that I did or didn’t do this or that is fine.” It requires next to nothing and permits almost everything.

ASTM’s Commercial Standard is the longest disclaimer ever written.

ASTM’s Commercial Standard which says almost nothing, requires next to nothing, and permits almost everything… is 180 degrees opposite of www.nachi.org/sop.htm which says EXACTLY what to do and what not to do. It would be impossible to create a http://www.nachi.org/sopquiz.htm for ASTM’s Commercial Standard. ASTM requires nothing, permits everything. Meaningless.

I’ve got a great idea.

Why not include, in precise language, what we already know to be true. That is, if we choose to do something less that what is spelled out in the NACHI SOP, provided that it is agreed to by our Client, that it is fine, and that we have not violated our COE or the trust of the Client.

3.4.4 of the ASTM Standard is the funniest section. It basically says your due diligence is determined by how much time you have to prepare the report!

Can you imagine a home inspector saying… “Uh, no, I didn’t report on the furnace because I didn’t have time last night… my favorite TV show was on.”

:roll:

I may imterpret this as “wow, you aint paying me enough to prepare a complete report”.

Come to thnk of it, maybe we SHOULD back ASTM.

Problem is that, with thousands of hours, case law, insurance actuarials, underwriters, legislation, and all the rest already referring to existing standards from the likes of NACHI, ASHI, and even NAHI, I seriously doubt that a new residential ASTM standard will be readily adopted or incorporated by reference or law with many of the afforementioned venues.

And, to those naysayers, and to my warnings about SPECIAL KNOWLEDGE, I strongly urge you to read ASTM 2810. You may be on the hook for a number of things. Be careful what you wish for…

Joe writes

Yeah, I like 3.4.1 which says “don’t worry… you can’t screw up” and 3.4.4 which says “if you only write 1/2 the report because you don’t have time (because your favorite TV show is on)… that’s OK by us.”

LOL!

Hi to all,

Maybe I’m missing something here,but where does ASTM or NAHI suggest that they are looking at adapting E2018 to the practice of home inspection. It is my understanding that they are looking into generating a new standard.

Frankly, I don’t see it as a bad thing, with ASHIs, NAHIs, NACHIs and other SOP being so close anyway grouping those under an ASTM would appear to make sense.

But thats just me, your milage may vary.

Regards

Gerry

If they write a home inspection Standard anything like their commercial Standard… it will be 24 pages of disclaimers that say nothing, require nothing, and permit everything.

AIG, the largest corporation on the planet earth uses NACHI’s SOP for a reason: It so specifically delineates what to do and what not to do that we were able to build this: http://www.nachi.org/sopquiz.htm

I just did a word search on ASTM’s Commercial Standard for the word “shall” and came up with 1 instance.

I then did a word search for the phrase “shall not” and came up with 0 instances.

I think that says it all.

Nick,

again, I believe you are comparing apples with oranges.

Regards

Gerry

Gerry, we don’t have the oranges. We are comparing an example of one organization’s (NACHI’s) very specific SOP to an example of another organization’s (ASTM’s) anything goes but we call it a Standard so it sounds important.

I concede one is for residential inspections and one is for commercial inspections.

Nick, you might as well compare the ASTM std for drywall installation with the NACHI SOP it makes just as much sense as comparing E2018 with our SOP.

We all recognize the difference between dealing with commercial building professionals, and dealing with the home buying public,the later needs a higher degree of protection than the former, and in most states real estate law also recognise that fact.

My point is that should ASTM promote a unified SOP/ASTM covering residential “retail” inspections that it would probably be a good thing for our businesses and remove from any org the ability to frame law based around one associations SOP.

Regards

Gerry

I am my favorite comedian so I simply have to post this line again as I am still getting a chuckle out of it:

Gromicko writes

But Gerry… our industry already has SOP which is used by legislators, referenced in laws, recognized by courts, required by licensing boards, adopted by insurance companies, relied upon by the real estate community, printed in books and on websites, and used by tens of thousands of home inspectors.

Aren’t they a few decades too late?