Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi Jeff, I did not see any of the movement from the interior walls. I am thinking the majority of this is just the brick veneer. The interior walls were the block walls. My thinking is, I should have seen movement in the interior walls also. My concern is, what is causing the brick to push up like this? Is it structural or lack of maintenance to fix these areas before it got to this point?
Originally Posted By: jpope This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Quote:
It appears that the steel beams in these areas are corroding and pushing the brick up, which is allowing water into the structure and causing further expansion. The major movement is at the parapet walls. The major damage is at the top two floors. I know around the windows is not structural, but the upper section of the building concerns me.
If it's a true veneer, it rests on the foundation. Movement in the foundation will telegraph through "non-structural" members long before major indicators show in the "actual" structural members.
What I see is "indicators" of potentially major failure. The fact that interior walls are not showing these indications does not negate the fact that the perimeter foundation may be failing.
How was the site drainage?
Let a Structural Engineer tell you (or the client) that only a Mason is needed.
-- Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I am looking forward and appreciate any comments. My thinking is, that a fully qualified restoration company should be able to take care of this. I am thinking of recommending that it be evaluated by a qualified building restoration company, which also uses engineering consultants. I am concerned of adding the cost of a engineer to just tell them it needs repaired, which is already obvious.
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jeff, the lower foundation was good and the drainage was good. The major movement in the pictures is only found at the 8th and 9th floors. If this building had only 7 floors, I would say the exterior was in good shape, except for around the windows.
Originally Posted By: whandley This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
smcintire wrote:
I am concerned of adding the cost of a engineer to just tell them it needs repaired, which is already obvious.
Now Steve; That was spoken just like a good real estate agent. I'm sure that's a very expensive building. It's also more than two stories. In California my "B" General Contractors License is only valid on one and two story structures. Three stories and up, require "A" General Engineering Contractors. You know the structures got damage, what you don't know is what's causing it and how extensive is the damage. You made an excellent comment about possible water intrusion, fatigue, corrosion, damage, what ever with regard to inaccessible structural steel members. That's your concern, and that's what could end up costing your client big bucks.
I vote with Jeff, call a structural engineer, it's a no brainer.... 
Originally Posted By: smcintire This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I was not contacted by the Realtor agent, and I do not run my business that way. This is why I get these type jobs. I am being paid to make decisions for people, not just push things off to someone else. I have to go and will comment further latter.
Originally Posted By: lkage This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
smcintire wrote:
I am concerned of adding the cost of a engineer to just tell them it needs repaired, which is already obvious.
Yes it needs to be repaired.
A mason could fix the problem but the cause of the problem, IMO, is what needs to be addressed first or the problem will come back.
I don't profess to know the cause exactly but I know it's serious enough to call in the specialist engineer to make that determination. (I would be interested to know the reason behind what's happening in your photos.)
-- "I have never met a man so ignorant that I couldn't learn something from him."
Galileo Galilei
Originally Posted By: jnosworthy This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Steve,
From your words it sounds like you seemed overally concerned that the cost of the SE, would add a lot of cost with little more than confirmation of your own assessment. I think the SE’s role can be whatever it wants to be, but would surely include invasive testing to determine what is going on, how bad is bad, and for a fee, recommendations to remedy the problem, including design work if needed.
Like you say, you can refer to either the SE (the expert) or the restoration GC. Either route, I hope the owners are encouraged to seek the counsel of the expert.
In your photo 77, i have to wonder if the ac unit didn’t provided a steady supply of water into the sill cap area, and eventually on into the wall and behind the brick veneer.
I listened to a Nat. Public Radio interview some years back. The guest was from the company doing restoration of the steel on the empire state bldg. FACT steel can swell to 8 times its original thickness, just add water. Something to think about.
let us know what is learned about the remedy please
Originally Posted By: Michael D Thomas This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I can tell you this for sure: the building department in my city would expect an engineer’s stamp on the plans/application submitted for repair of that structure, and would probably call in a consulting engineer to evaluate the problem, review the application, and possibly to inspect the repair work as well.
A larger city like Indianapolis may have more engineering expertise in-house, but I would think the level of concern woud be similiar.
And as someone who has some experience in rehab and development, speaking just for myself I would not make a bid on that building without an independent engineering evaluation - one look at those pictures and I'd just assume I'd be writing that check - for starters if that's an occupied structure and/or there is still access to area surrounding the building at ground level the owners have *major* liability and insurance issues that only get worse once they are aware of such conditions and that can only be properly addressed once the problem and it?s consequences are well understood.
So I?d have no problem at all with a recommendation for bringing in unbiased professionals who were working directly for me to evaluate the problem.
Originally Posted By: Michael D Thomas This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
(It’s not there is anything exceptional about the nature of the currently visible defects; it’s that there has apparently been so much water penetration on a structure of that height - I?d be worried about what I couldn?t see (for example about the connection of the masonry to what’s behind it for a story or two - or perhaps even further- below those parapets) and I wouldn?t be surprised if a SE wanted some ?undamaged? portions of the structure exposed for evaluation.)
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Hi to all,
I agree with calling for a PE opinion, like steve I also do commercial inspections and don't defer to often, however as others have noted, the amount of moisture that has got into the building in the last 50 years has to have had a conciderable effect o the structural steel framing, I would be very concerned about the condition of both the beams and more particularly their connections.
Also on a side note a future owner has huge liabilities due to the likelyhood of masonary falling from the building.
Originally Posted By: jkormos This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Steve, how many units was the building and do you know what they were asking for it. just curious, is this in Indy?
I would also say that there is a need for some invasive investigation to see what is really going on. Also thought if I were to bet a buck, just like some of the other folks have stated, my guess is many years of water and deferred maintenance.
I also would be worried about the masonry coming lose from the structure and doing someone some serious damage. That is seven stories up, mass x velocity = big law suite, even worse someone could loose their life.
Originally Posted By: Jay Moge This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
no work needed at all. just hand out hard hats at every intersection on the street below that cross near this building. oh and pay your insurance: health and life.
