Arc Fault Breakers Don't Work....

We have a builder here in Utah that is a state legislator. He is currently pushing through the idea that Arc Fault Breakers do not work, and says he has to replace to many of them under the one year builders warranty. What is your thoughts on this? I know they can trip and be a nuisance sometimes, but they do have a purpose and have saved many homes and lives. Do any other states out there not require AFCI?

They have been required here since 2001… They work as intended

How many is that? Source / stats? Documentation of this statement-of-fact should be adequate to put down his initiative.

Statistics do show AFCI’s will reduced the number of house fires.

That makes a reference to electrical fires and deaths. It neither defines the percentage caused by Arc faults, nor the percentage of Arc faults trapped by AFCI devices. It gives no indication of actual lives and homes saved by these devices.

How do you substantiate the statement-of-fact that AFCI devices “have saved many homes and lives”?

I’m not opposed to AFCI devices and I suspect that they probably have saved some lives and homes (how many, if any, I have no clue), but if you are going to state a premise like the above as fact, you should have the ability to substantiate it.

Well played Tin Man, :wink:

It’s an implied correlation. The article does not specifically attribute all or even any of the reduction to AFCI devices, nor does it give actual numbers. It’s interesting that the % reduction of electrical fires exceeds the percentage of homes that fall into that age category (though you can’t really compare percentages that way).

Your claim “have saved many homes and lives” still isn’t substantiated with real data (I don’t doubt that it has saved lives and homes, but I’m not ready to treat it as a fact either). That’s how we get statements like gun control reduces crime and saves many lives; Manmade CO2 emissions causes global warming (look no further than NOAA to see how statistic and science get manipulated when there is a political and financial agenda driving a predetermined outcome).

So how many lives and how many homes have been saved by AFCI devices?

My thoughts are that the Builder/State Legislator is running into many defective AFCI breakers and should be aware of how to approach the manufacturers to have the manufacturing defects corrected. Also as a State Legislator he should have more influence over the manufacturer, with reference to law, to be able to have the manufacturer correct the defects instead of trying to legislate not requiring them.

doubt seriously any exact number will ever be tangible
same as asking how many gfci have prevented electrocutions
unlike me most don’t report narrow escapes

what is tangible is afci are nec required
prolly will be until wireless is a reality

I would agree with you Barry, but I am afraid of the rambling response it may elicit about my unsaid claims. :wink:

hey BK how’s Astro Boy been doing
isn’t agreeing a said claim…just asking
gone to play in the wood pile read ya later

I agree.

I agree with you. I wrote to him and said, why not push for the manufactures to create a better more reliable product instead of getting rid of them. He agrees and says he’ll push for the them to come back as soon as they nuisance problems disappear.

Well, the building codes are requiring AFCI’s more and more. Here is CA with the code implemented Jan 1. If a homeowner changes out an outlet on a non-AFCI circuit the circuit must be upgraded to AFCI. Permit or not.

Sad since we know that will never happen! He has effectively “disappeared” the nuisance problem by legislating them out of the requirements. Now there is no incentive to push the manufacturer.

We are seeing more of these in new home construction here as well. There is still a grey area in the remodeling industry and if the existing wiring isn’t touched then the bedrooms do not require the upgrade. Problem with that is renovations are being done where the service panel is upgraded, all the receptacles and switches are upgraded but since the wiring is left as is no AFCI’s. Like others I do not know if they work as intended (I have 4 in my home) but I have never needed a fire extinguisher and still have one of those in my home.