Arc Fault Breakers in Panel

Originally Posted By: jpope
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rbennett wrote:
Do not use a suretest for AFCI circuit breaker testing You would be losing $$


Can you explain this. . .

rbennett wrote:
Testing breakers when the home is occupied has some problems that will be there even if the home is not occupied.


and this. . .


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Jeff


As you know the mfg of AFCI's have not blessed an external testing standard that has been simulated by suretest. One is losing $$ if they buy a suretest to test AFCI's. The mfr test button is the test that is the only test at this time

If any other info is out there, lets hear it

rlb


Originally Posted By: jpope
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I never suggested buying a SureTest just for testing the AFCI, but I do believe all HI’s should own and use one.



Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Jeff


The problems of the test is the same if the house is occupied or not. Clocks etc. must be addressed. As time goes on we will probably see all ckts in a house AFCI protected. Clocks and computers are in houses that are not occupied.

Anytime that we test something we have a possible problem that the test will do damage. Just turning on the water to an upstairs shower could bring problems.

In short we must all realize that we must check and see what "testing" might do if things go wrong. Trip a breaker and it will not reset. We broke it because we were the last person to touch it. We do not test the rest of the breakers for their overload rating.

Perhaps testing GFCI and AFCI's is too far away from our SOP

Oh yes check the oven for items stored before turning it on to see if it works. Also do not test the selfcleaning option unless your are going to spend a lot of time waiting for it to complete the test

Jeff any thoughts??

rlb


Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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Hello Guys,


I guess as an Electrical Contractor and NEC Instructor here in VA I would guess I should chime in on the AFCI thing. I have heard the debate on AFCi's since their inception in the 1999 NEC and formally in the 2002 NEC.

SureTest is the only unit I will use, I do check the AFCI's from the breaker but I also check them from the AFCI as part of my walk around routine. The additional comments section on most HI reports would lend additional comments on the situation but as with the recall on many AFCI's from SQ.D some tiem ago even the AFCI test button will not give the total story in all situations.

I teach about AFCI's, I explain AFCI's and I have seen them work as they are supposed do and I totally support them. They do tend to run a little warmer but nothing to be overly concerned about but I just happen to agree that the SureTest is in my opinion a great tool and the AFCI in all my tests work well and always in accurate reason to the test button as well.


Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Jeff


I never remember that you said that HI's should buy a suretest.

What does it do that we need??

Remember we need other items to test other systems as well.

Some think current draw should be checked on electric water heaters and electric heating systems. Very few HI's do this level of testing. Is this a problem??

Perhaps it is time to get back to the basics. (some feel that we have gone too deep) Test equipment is not our profession. Our judgement is our profession

rlb


Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



rbennett wrote:
The problems of the test is the same if the house is occupied or not. Clocks etc. must be addressed. As time goes on we will probably see all ckts in a house AFCI protected. Clocks and computers are in houses that are not occupied.


![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif) Sorry Rich. I mean "vacant" when I say unoccupied. No furniture, no clocks, nada. . .

AFCI's, GFCI's, smoke detectors, auto reverse in garage door openers. . . simple tests without complicated equipment.

I test all of these and more without too much concern. If a problem arises through normal operation and/or testing, my report will state Failed Under Normal Testing.


--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

Originally Posted By: rbennett
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Mike Holt has a very good pro and con on the Shuretest


I feel that we all should continue to follow this debate but at this time we better follow the testing of the Mfg.

The test equipment mfr's such as Ideal have us out on a thin stick. It will not be long before someone will produce a tester that is not just a GFCI tester that is set for 30ma which is not really testing an AFCI ckt. Does anyone know what Ideal is really testing and is it UL certified for this type of testing. (I know it is UL listed)

http://www.mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/AFCI-HTML/HTML/AFCI-Testers-versus-AFCI-Indicators~20050728.php


Originally Posted By: bkelly2
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Quote:
The system does include arc-fault circuit interrupters, which after January 1st, 2002, are required in new construction on 15 and 20 amp branch circuits serving bedrooms.


Well I guess I will default back to my standard arc fault statement.


--
"I used to be disgusted, Now I try to Be amused"-Elvis Costello

Originally Posted By: apolillo
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Fellow Inspectors,


I asked Square D about arc fault breaker placement in panels. This was their response…


Anatol


Thank you for your internet inquiry. We do not restrict the number of AFI breakers that can
be installed in a panel. With normal loading the panel could be full of AFI breakers.

I hope this information is helpful, please do not hesitate to contact us if you have additional questions.

Tom Cincotta
Customer Information Center
1-888-778-2733


Originally Posted By: pabernathy
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lol…and the way the NEC is going you just might see them demand AFCI’s in every room in the future as they seem to be leading up to it.