ASHI / NACHI Q & A

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41

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


What can we all do together to increase the creditability of our industry?


Sorry about taking so long to get back to this Greg. This is all just my personal opinion.

As far as what the orgs can do, you may have already gathered that I agree with what's been said about the need for the major players to come together, hopefully to agree on a basic/loose set of guidelines for all to follow (the best of everyones ideas, adopted by all). Until that happens the "real work" Joe B. mentioned cannot even begin. I think the real work would be to get a mutally agreed upon set of model licensing legislation into law in all 50 states (if possible). Something fair but serious, setting minimum requirements for training, CE, etc., I won't go into that right now. So long as there are plenty of places where a person with little or no background, training, or experience can decide one day to be a home inspector and start working the next day, we have no hope of attaining the respect and compensation afforded to many other professionals. Yes, I know I'm making people mad now;sorry, but I believe that's the case. Meanwhile we can only achive those higher goals as individuals.

Fast forward to 2010...

ASHI and NAHI now have entrance exams. NACHI beefed up thiers several notches, the others then adopted it.

NACHI now has a three level membership. Working member, full member, and CMI, with the requirements in line with similar designations at ASHI and NAHI, but not exactly the same.

There is only one universal SOP & COE between them, and it goes further than any previous ones in places.

There is only one NHIE / CMI / whatever test, all use it.

Each has a consumer complaint arm right out in front, and policing is no longer taken lightly by anyone. If you're proven unfit over time (like say, incompetent or crooked) you're out. If NACHI kicks you out for such, neither ASHI nor NAHI will take you, same all around.

I could go on, but I'll spare you. The question for all of us is: Is this a world that scares you, or appeals to you?

42

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.




That depends on where your priorities are. It has little to do with home inspections.

So long as ASHI and NAHI promote protectionist legislation, they will fail. I suspect that if an analysis was performed in all states with "model legislation" enacted, not a single homeowner truly benefitted. For all the clammor for licensing, there was no data available to justify the need for it. Most of it is "feel good" legislation, which pretends to protect, but hurts the consumer by thinning the herd of available inspectors.

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

43

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


NAHI? Dudes, where have you been? They’re over. Stick a fork in 'em. They are down to 800 some members and dropping, a 20% renewal rate!, sold out to USInspect, recently LOWERED their SOP, have a website that hasn’t changed in 4 years, have no membership benefits, and recently had a regional convention with 28 inspectors in attendence. Turn out the lights someone.


ASHI could still survive this drop from 6900 to 3300 members (this according to ASHI big wigs on this board, it's actually much worse) but they better stop the hemorrhaging quick. You can only charge for pretending there is value in your branding program, only mortgage your building to the hilt, and only sell your continuing education exclusivity to ITA ONCE.

We'll all be one by the end of 2005, but it won't be through association cooperation... ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

44

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Nick,


For all the nay-sayers as to ASHI's drop in membership...

Arent we getting these numbers, in part, through the grapevine of a company that recently paid for the mailing list of all ASHI members? Wasn't the bill, based on actual member names, actually much smaller than expected?

BTW... does NACHI sell it's member information to third parties? ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

And folks bitch about a yellow pages ad...

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."

45

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


[Dupe post deleted]

–
Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
46

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


My reply to your last thread is not a swipe at you, so please dont take it that way. I am trying to be more diplomatic (like my compadre Gerry B), rather that my normally combattive self.


I appreciate the effort on your part Joe.

I dont believe that many ASHI members WANT to work anything out with NACHI. On this side of the fence, I believe the same to be true.

Sadly true, at least at the moment.

As to that general feeling, I would ask you to remember that NACHI has been regarded as illegitimate by many ASHI members, by and large. You can see this everyday on this very message board. But, one would then have to ask why are there so many folks monitoring what is said or done over here?

I'm aware of the general feeling, both ways. I would assume there are a number of reasons why outsiders come here, not the least of which is simply because they can.

Just look at Scott Patterson, who seems to monitor these threads and jumps to ASHI's defense at a moments notice.

If ASHI's board was open, wouldn't you visit? If you were there and someone lit in on NACHI, wouldn't you defend your organization?

ASHI has hidden behind individual chapters taking potshots at us for years. The frivilous lawsuits are scary. Just look at Pennsylvania.

I know there were lawsuits, but don't know a thing about them.

Many of us feel that we owe ASHI nothing. They do not recognize NACHI, and never look to collaborate with us on anything which would help inspectors. Instead, they continue to push protectionist legislation wherever they can. As an org, they should have denounced the legislative debacle in NJ; legislation which, I may add, screwed many an ASHI member. Did they? Absolutely not.

I agree 100%. They should have denounced it.

Instead, they ranked NJ's legislation #1. Imagine that.

I'm not aware of NJ ever having that ranking, but I'll check on it. If it was so ranked, that's ridiculous.

So, there is some background as to some of the animous felt around here for ASHI, and certain ASHI folks who believe NACHI to be a threat, and bash us at every opportunity. It's an ugly fact. Our cuts are deep, and we have the scars to prove it.

It runs deep with many on both sides, I know.

Should we work together to improve the industry? Sure. But not at the expense of this org or its members. The ball has been in ASHI's court for some time. It is not in both courts. You are mistaken. We dont have the ball by any stretch of the imagination. We gave it to ASHI long ago. They just dont know what to do with it.

I guess we'll have agree to disagree there, I see it as being in both courts.

We're like the little kid who was bad-mouthed and bullied through elementary school. Well, we grew tall and strong. It's high school now, and we're not taking any crap. We were always here, and despite all our perceived shortcomings, have risen to the challenge.

NACHI has done well, in spite of its detractors. There's no denying it.

Dang it. I accidentally deleted your next paragraph Joe. I hope I didn't imply NACHI had no influence, somewhere in one of my posts. I know your people are out there working at it.

Some are uncomfortable with that. They blink in disbelief. Instead, they still take every opportunity to slam our ED, our entrance exam, and this org. Take our entrance exam. It's an ENTRANCE EXAM. I would sincerely hope it was an easy test for an experienced inspector or one with some basic knowledge of our industry. It's an ENTRANCE EXAM...

I hate to even touch on this again, but if it's only an easy entrance exam maybe holding it up as the big advantage of a certified inspector isn't the best idea.

Even your own question as to "Who owns NACHI"... Who cares? Certainly not the overwhelming majority of our membership. There are a few who occasionally ask the question. Except for a handfull of members, all inquiries along these lines come from the outside.

I asked because I didn't know. That was supposed to be the purpose of the thread, and I didn't belabor the issue after Nick gave me the answer he was going to give me.

This very thread "ASHI / NACHI Q&A". Informative? Maybe.... But, who will it sway? Most folks that join us do so for the benefits. It's a no-brainer.

I hoped it would be informative for the interested on both sides, but I didn't expect to sway anyone. No expectations = no disappointment.

Only one question is pertinant to the issue. Is membership in NACHI worth the $289? If one believes so, then they join. If they dont, then they dont join. If they think they wasted their money or time, they dont renew.

If you mean the issue of NACHI membership, I never intended for this thread to be about that. I asked a few questions, we went back and forth over the answers and points. I've been asked almost nothing. And now...well, I don't much know what to say to the posts about the Florida meetings popping up here.

It's really that simple. Our numbers, and the efforts of individual members who choose to get involved, is what helps us to continue to grow (by leaps and bounds), and gets us recognition by legislators. The other fact is that most folks just plain LIKE us.

I don't have a problem with that, good for you guys.

Finally... you needn't dissect this post, and respond paragraph by parqagraph. It is what it is...

My apologies Joe, but if you come on and put out a bunch of different points it's the only way I can address them all.

47

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


: We have an open board to discuss technical issues related to home inspections that your students can check out … and even post questions … no charge, and they dont even need to be members. [And the kicker] … How can we help you to educate your students better, and make them better home inspectors … and maybe we could do some free marketing seminars to really help them with a common weak area.


ASHI Reply: I am sorry, we have a closed board that we will not give access to even just to check out for students. However, we will send you a "candidate" application.

That spoke volumes to me.

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

48

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Sorry for the dupe post … I will fix that tomorrow.

–
Robert O’Connor, PE


Eagle Engineering ?


Eagle Eye Inspections ?


NACHI Education Committee


I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
49

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


That depends on where your priorities are.


Fair enough. The devil is indeed in the details.

It has little to do with home inspections.

It has everything to do with the home inspection industry.

So long as ASHI and NAHI promote protectionist legislation, they will fail.

I certainly hope so, if we're talking about those indentured servant types.

I suspect that if an analysis was performed in all states with "model legislation" enacted, not a single homeowner truly benefitted.

It always depends on the legislation. Always.

For all the clammor for licensing, there was no data available to justify the need for it. Most of it is "feel good" legislation, which pretends to protect, but hurts the consumer by thinning the herd of available inspectors.

I'll stick to my basic philosophy and agree to disagree.

A good law is better than no law.
A bad law is worse than no law.

50

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


NAHI? Dudes, where have you been? They’re over. Stick a fork in 'em. They are down to 800 some members and dropping, a 20% renewal rate!, sold out to USInspect, recently LOWERED their SOP, have a website that hasn’t changed in 4 years, have no membership benefits, and recently had a regional convention with 28 inspectors in attendence. Turn out the lights someone.


I don't really know a thing about them.

ASHI could still survive this drop from 6900 to 3300 members (this according to ASHI big wigs on this board, it's actually much worse) but they better stop the hemorrhaging quick.

I think you're counting everyone on the first number and only the full members on the second there Nick. Correct me if I'm wrong.

You can only charge for pretending there is value in your branding program, only mortgage your building to the hilt, and only sell your continuing education exclusivity to ITA ONCE.

As far as I know Branding is sort of "hit" here and "miss" there, but I make a point of not keeping up on it. Don't underestimate the core loyalty over there, it isn't based on sales.

We'll all be one by the end of 2005, but it won't be through association cooperation...

Whatever you say Nick. I may save that one for you to read again sometime.

51

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


For all the nay-sayers as to ASHI’s drop in membership…


Arent we getting these numbers, in part, through the grapevine of a company that recently paid for the mailing list of all ASHI members? Wasn't the bill, based on actual member names, actually much smaller than expected?

Beats me.

BTW... does NACHI sell it's member information to third parties?

Hey there's a relevent question I hadn't thought to ask. Do you?

And folks bitch about a yellow pages ad...

I think it was the dollar amount that grabbed attention.

52

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


jfarsetta wrote:
they [ASHI] ranked NJ's legislation #1.

Brian A. Goodman wrote:
I'm not aware of NJ ever having that ranking, but I'll check on it. If it was so ranked, that's ridiculous.

Yup ... NJ Legislation was Ranked #1 by ASHI

See this link, and go to Pg 21 ... CLICK HERE

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
53

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


NACHI Reply: We have an open board to discuss technical issues related to home inspections that your students can check out … and even post questions … no charge, and they dont even need to be members. [And the kicker] … How can we help you to educate your students better, and make them better home inspectors … and maybe we could do some free marketing seminars to really help them with a common weak area.


ASHI Reply: I am sorry, we have a closed board that we will not give access to even just to check out for students. However, we will send you a "candidate" application.

That spoke volumes to me.

I understand Robert. I've said it before, ASHI does have its problems. What has worked for so long is finally losing some noticeable steam, and it's hard for any large, highly structured organization to change very quickly. Most people hate and fear change, even when they shouldn't.

54

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Yup … NJ Legislation was Ranked #1 by ASHI


See this link, and go to Pg 21 ...

You're right, they did. That's just absurd and indefensable.

55

Originally Posted By: tschwalbe
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Then why do you keep defending them? If you put half as much effort into working to correct ASHI problems as you do defending over here we wouldnt need this thread. We would all ready be working towards common goals! When is the last time you have ever been proactive within your own org? icon_question.gif

56

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Then why do you keep defending them?


I defend them only where I feel it's justified,and I criticise them when I think they're wrong. I don't defend anything out of reflex, it's either justified or it's not.

When is the last time you have ever been proactive within your own org?

I've only been in about 2 years and I spent the whole summer on "administrative suspension". Almost from the time I joined the Branding thing was the central issue, which I was opposed to. I'll wait for sanity to return before I actively participate, or just go somewhere else, but looking at all the other orgs I know there will be things I disagree with there too.

57

Originally Posted By: dbowers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


of the people that applied. In 1987 ASHI had 600 +/- Full Members according to an old Newspaper article I recently saw, that had been written by their executive director at that time.


They've come a long way in 20 years. I wonder how far the other groups will go in 20 years.

Brian - People that don't belong to ASHI wonder about ASHI's motives for obvious reasons. WHO is it that RANKED Home Inspection Legislative LAWS around the COUNTRY - ASHI MEMBER Home Inspectors just like you and I. We're not legislators we're just inspectors. Obviously their RATINGS may be a little BIASED.

Ask Ford or Dodge to rate the best Truck and I'll bet that Ford doesn't choose Dodge - the ranking thing is a joke.

When many of us joined ASHI 20 years ago - it was the ONLY national association for Home Inspectors - the Mission Statement I signed said the intent was to promote the Home Inspection Industry.

For the past several years the goal up there to many people seems to be
"I pledge allegiance to the ASHI FLAG, etc, etc, etc". That don't cut it with many people!

Lets face it - they've done some great things for the HI Industry, but its a fairly Close Knit Clan with a lot of inbreeding.

Look back at ASHI's Leadership History. In 2005 ASHI's new President will step up to the plate. He's from St. Louis - he'll be the 3rd National President from the same St. Louis ASHI Chapter in the past 18 years. They've had 2 National Presidents from Indianapolis; 3 from the same ASHI Chapter in Conneticut; 3 going on 4 National Presidents that were ITA Instructors; 6 or maybe 7 out of the Tri-State Area around New York, New Jersey and Pennsylvania.

If you were a betting man - what would be the odds that 3 National ASHI Presidents could LEGITIMATELY come from the SAME Chapter in St. Louis or 3 from the SAME Chapter in Conneticut; or 4 were all Instructors from the SAME Training School.

Makes you stop & think does it not!

58

Originally Posted By: Guest
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Have they had and will they continue to have the same executive director from inception until eternity?


Has the same one person made the final decision on all expenditures? Will that same one person still be making those decisions in twenty years.

At least inbreeding can be accomplished at ASHI. There's more than one guy in charge. At least the impression of an election is presented to members.

Don't go Chad bashing now, it's just something to think about.

59

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Brian A. Goodman wrote:
I've only been in about 2 years and I spent the whole summer on "administrative suspension". Almost from the time I joined the Branding thing was the central issue, which I was opposed to. I'll wait for sanity to return before I actively participate, or just go somewhere else, but looking at all the other orgs I know there will be things I disagree with there too.


Brian,

It amazes me that a law suit hasn't ensued over this administrative suspension thing. When members paid their yearly dues to ASHI they were afforded/guaranteed certain promotional/marketing services through either the use of ASHI's name or referral services for the time period of your dues. Now ASHI comes out with a new "branding" program that was not a part of the original agreement and requires everyones participation by payment of additional monies. Subsequently, because one disagrees and doesn't pay the extra fees they place them on administrative suspension. ASHI in essence took away everything originally agreed upon when the dues were paid. Breach of contract in my eyes and immediate reimbursement of dues should be forthcoming.

I applaud your stance on this. My only concern would be - why stick around? NACHI may not be the best or the worst, but if you disagree with a program they won't place you on administrative suspension and take away any promotional/marketing or referral services that you have already payed for. Did the membership of ASHI really vote in favor of this?

Sorry, it just does not make smart business sense to me.
60

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Chad? Chad, is that you? Chad? Chad?


Wait... let's look at the content of this non-member's post... Yup, its Chad alright...

--
Joe Farsetta

Illigitimi Non Carborundum
"Dont let the bastards grind you down..."