Backstab

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#1

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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…an outlet. Can someone explain this meaning to me? I’ve heard the term referenced here before but not sure exactly what it means.


Thanks.

Kevin

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#2

Originally Posted By: jwortham
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Kevin,


If you look at the back of the outlet, you will see some small round holes. These allow you to stick the wire straight in versus using the side terminal and tightening them down.

That's backstabbing.

It's quicker on the install, but it sucks! ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

#3

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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jwortham wrote:

It's quicker on the install, but it sucks! ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)


That sums it up pretty well.

In most homes outlets and switches that are back stabbed are of the type that use only spring pressure to hold the wire in.

You simply push the solid wire in the hole and it 'stays'. In my opinion this even though allowed is an extremely poor connection.

In my work we also use outlets and switches that have holes in the back for the wires, the difference is that once you push the wire in the hole you tighten the screw on the side closing a clamp much like the one on a Square D breaker terminal. This in my opinion is a very good connection.

It is unlikely you will run into these better types in the average home they are 20 amp specification grade outlets that cost a lot more than the $0.50 'quickwire' outlets.

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#4

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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Thanks for the info guys…it’s something we won’t have to deal with much as HI’s as those are usually hidden from view.

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#5

Originally Posted By: phinsperger
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–
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#6

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Do not forget that for a long time it was permitted with 12 AWG.


I grew up in a 1970 house that had 12 AWG aluminum NM backstabed into the outlets 'protected' by an FPE stab-loc panel. ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)

That house along with the others like it in the neighborhood are still standing.

Bob

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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum

#7

Originally Posted By: kmcmahon
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icon_idea.gif I just got the “stab-loc” meaning Just never put it all together.

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#8

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Kevin “Stab-Loc” was a name FPE used with certain panels and breakers, it is not the same as back wire, back stab, quick wire, speed wire etc. outlets.


It was supposed to describe how the breakers 'stabbed' into the buss bar holes. They did 'stab' but they did not 'loc' The stab-loc breakers generally fall out on their own. ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

As far as I know FPE is the only company that used this method of breaker to buss connection.

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Bob (AKA iwire)
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#9

Originally Posted By: Randy Flockton
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Quote:
It is unlikely you will run into these better types in the average home they are 20 amp specification grade outlets that cost a lot more than the $0.50 'quickwire' outlets


All I use are the spec grades in any application... (P&S BR-15/20)

I've been know to use Hubbell in high use/abuse areas also ![icon_biggrin.gif](upload://iKNGSw3qcRIEmXySa8gItY6Gczg.gif)

I come across more partial power losses because of back stab connections failing that anything else... But hey!, when you're bidding to build a tract of houses, no one cares about much more than the inspector signing off & collection your check...

-Randy

--
"Prices subject to change with customers additude"
#10

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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I am using the “stick’m in and tighten the screw” receptacles in my removation and I don’t remember them being that expensive at the BORG.

#11

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Out of curiousity…does any one here ever pull a receptical out of the box to examine it?


I don’t…


I do make sure that I use a tester to verify its connectivity and polarity. I also use a seperate GFI tester designed for GFI's.

Personally, I hate back wire devices and believe they are inadequite for proper safety.
You can not use them in certain installations like hospitals and some commercial/industrial buildings.


So what extent do you go to on the branch circuit wiring?

Bob P.

#12

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
I am using the "stick'm in and tighten the screw" receptacles in my removation and I don't remember them being that expensive at the BORG.


Hi Greg maybe there are less expensive versions available then our specifications require, I should never assume.

Generally the specs require an equal to a Hubbell 5362 - 20 amp duplex, I do not see prices but I bet these are $3 to $5 each, maybe Randy can nail the pricing.

The up side is these are very durable outlets.

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
#13

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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These may have been a couple bucks but when you look at the overall cost of a project it is trivial for the extra quality.


How much is it worth, not to be replacing it in a couple years because the plugs fall out?


They were not boxed and prominently displayed so maybe the mass retailers are trying to bring up the quality of their line.

#14

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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Greg Fretwell wrote:
How much is it worth, not to be replacing it in a couple years because the plugs fall out?


I agree ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif) , but the reality is that is worth nothing to the ECs that do not care about the job after the final payment.

Here in MA we are required to provide one year warranty and even the cheapest junk will usually outlast that.

The engineers that want to ensure the highest quality job for their customers will specify the good stuff.

--
Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
#15

Originally Posted By: dbozek
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I do not backstab outlets myself…but I do use spec grade duplexes that allow for back wiring…which is a far better way to wire an outlet than backstabbing the wires into the little holes. Typically, I wrap the wire around the screw terminal then I tape the outside of the receptacle. The tape does two things…in a metal box it can prevent the receptacle from being shorted out if it should move one way or the other…and secondly…when ya gotta take that thing out…it helps…


I've seen more shorts from backstabbing an outlet than with any other way of wiring such.

--
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#16

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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Just to add a little fuel to the fire here…


Is it okay to feed throu a recepticle to use it to go to the next, or do you have to pig tail it.

Then why are there two screws?

Gee, If it has two screws that clamp two wire each and a set of holes for back wire can I place 4 or maybe even 6 on each side and be leagal. Hell thats more than the cu. in. of the box is rated for just on one side.

Well then again that configuration of two blades without the littl notch in the center means it is a 15 amp. receptical. Can I use 12 wire to feed it or is it over rating the device?

Okay.....now fight nice guy's.

Bob P.

#17

Originally Posted By: Bob Badger
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No fight this like shooting fish in a barrel icon_lol.gif




From the 2003 UL White Book RECEPTACLES FOR ATTACHMENT PLUGS
AND PLUGS (RTRT) section.
Quote:
Terminals of the wire-binding screw, setscrew, or screw-actuated back wired clamping types are suitable for use with both solid and stranded building wires.

Screwless terminal connectors of the conductor push-in type (also known as ??push-in-terminals??) are restricted to 15 A branch circuits and are for connection with 14 AWG solid copper wire only. They are not intended for use with aluminum or copper-clad aluminum wire, 14 AWG stranded copper wire, or 12 AWG solid or stranded copper wire.

Single and duplex receptacles rated 15 A and 20 A that are provided with more than one set of terminals for the connection of line and neutral conductors may be used to feed a single set of branch circuit conductors connected to other receptacles on a multi-outlet branch circuit. These devices have not been tested for tapping off more than one circuit from the receptacle by utilizing both the side-wiring and back-wiring terminals on an outlet.

Duplex receptacles rated 15 A and 20 A that are provided with break off tabs may have those tabs removed so that the two receptacles may be wired in a multi-wire branch circuit.


This shows us that:

All 15 and 20 amp outlets are OK with solid or stranded wire.

Push in wiring is limited to 14 AWG solid copper and 15 amp circuits

You can feed through the outlet with either the side terminals or the rear terminals but not both.

Now to the NEC

Table 210.21(B)(3) tells us 15 or 20 amp outlets are acceptable on 20 amp branch circuits.

But this will still have to comply with section 210.21(B)(1).

Quote:
(1) Single Receptacle on an Individual Branch Circuit. A single receptacle installed on an individual branch circuit shall have an ampere rating not less than that of the branch circuit.


Remember a single receptacle is just that, a single as in one receptacle.

A duplex is two receptacles, that being the case you may install one or more 15 amp duplex receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.

Bob

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Bob (AKA iwire)
ECN Discussion Forums
Mike Holt Code Forum
#18

Originally Posted By: rpalac
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I’m impressed.


Cab you more define the feed through therory.

People believe you can go on and on, not true.

Also where is thepig tail section?

#19

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The “pigtail section” refers to multiwire circuits.


300.13(B) Device Removal. In multiwire branch circuits, the continuity of a grounded conductor shall not depend on device connections such as lampholders, receptacles, and so forth, where the removal of such devices would interrupt the continuity.