According to “the bulletin” (US fire Marshall’s office) they list the electrician as the responsible party for determining proper bonding.
This is not the plumbers job.
Our position is to visually inspect its existence (if any).
Just do your job and let everybody else fight over it.
I think we were just having a discussion on the issue and not telling anyone to do anything otherwise. Just having a good educational discussion was all. Indeed the HI simply reports it…they are not the experts on the subject.
Interesting, especially wonder how this plays out since I do not believe they have any jurisdiction over the electrical code. I would like to read the section concerning this.
Here’s a flier from the POCO.
“What should I do if I find CSST? It is strongly recommended that you contact a licensed electrician.”
I love the terms " strongly recommended " and “encouraged”…lovely enforceable terms…
Probably only written that way since they would be the most familiar with the concept and proper materials. Would you want a plumber working in the panel?
Yeah, I can see the plumber going “what is a #6 AWG”, but that doesn’t mean that it’s automatically the electricians job to connect it.
I remember one jurisdiction that required two inspections for a footer, one building, another electrical. The building inspector said the conductor was electrical so they couldn’t inspect it. Complete BS IMO. If you can’t see if it is present you shouldn’t be inspecting.
Exactly…Maybe the concept of the Plumbers asking the Electricians for a little lesson on termination may be the right course of action. if they can play nice for a few minutes.
In reality the Electrician usually makes clamp connections to the pipes directly so if the plumber asks the Electrician to make the connection to the CSST and gives no manufacturers direction…what happens if the Electrician just clamps it (incorrectly) to the CSST…if it his fault for the incorrect termination or the plumbers fault for assuming the electrician knew how to terminate it…Chicken or the Egg !
So how do you resolve this…The plumber makes the connection to the CSST either at a change over to black steel or at a manifold of the CSST and then consult with the electrician for the other “end” termination…Assuming the Electrician is responsible is un-responsible…The installer of the original system has to take ownership of it and seek assistance where need in my opinion…he can ask the electrician for assistance but the electrician is not obligated in my opinion.
Maybe someone can sendthis videoto All plumbers & electricians to show both trades how simple it is to correctly bond CSST piping.
These two guys seem to have it figured out, as explained by the manufacturer, Gastite.
Except that when he placed the bonding clamp onto the ground rod in one of the examples, the clamp was installed incorrectly. He needed to turn the clamp around so that the little NIBS are against the ground rod.
Other than that very nicely done. I do question the “daisy” chain example with multiple gas meters as it only takes the 6 AWG back to a single units main panel…but then again this may be acceptable for the manufacturers instructions…just hope my tenant won’t remove it in the panel when they go sniffing around…;)…If again I believed that the 6 AWG actually does anything…I will leave my personal opinions out on that one.
But then again…you can’t fix stupid.
Still not sure how the #6 stops any current flow on the CSST…
Exactly…but thats a whole different thread and I don’t want to get started on that one…no Coffee yet and its nearly lunch time in Texas.:shock:
I might be able to see this if the #6 acted as a jumper between the two ends of the tubing but it doesn’t.
Nope…and it gives the manufacturer the warm and fuzzes and possibly a consumer false sense of security…but alas it is creeping it’s way into the IRC and IGCC and so…have at it.
Just don’t assume it’s a SURE THING! because the manufacturers say so. It’s all about diverting liability when you do not listen to their instructions but plausible deniability will rule the day when you place them on the stand.
Are you guys (electricians) saying that if home inspectors observe CSST that is not bonded to not worry about it? That there’s no actual proof bonding CSST does anything as far as safety, and redirecting the current to ground/earth?
The way I see this is the furnace has been bonded with an egc from the circuit. The black iron is bonded at the other end or at a manifold. Now you place a conductive material, the CSSt, between the two points. Theoretically there should be no flow of current,but due to resistance there is a diffence. What material is going to carry the current? Add in another grounded surface near the CSST and the problem compounds. I understand there is a greater concern during lightning strikes also.
If I were an HI I would say you need to report what you see. I just questions the effectivity of the so called solution.
Agreed…it’s like saying you do not believe AFCI’s do what they say they do…BUT inspectors should recommend them and if their are doing a home inspection on a home that required them at the time of construction and they are not present…you report it even if you don’t fully buy into them…(I buy into them but some may not…lol)…in other words you leave the emotions at the door…I nor Jim are getting paid for this good discussion so we are free to continue…
What we are doing is using this forum to discuss our advanced beliefs to aid others in knowing the facts…You report what you see…we will utilize this forum to have discussions that just may help educate members…but since the issue with CSST is demanded by IGCC, IRC and Manufacturers you will continue to report it…me and Jim will continue to discuss principles of electrical theory and so on…to ourselves:mrgreen:
Keep it up, I look at it as unofficial but probably more effective continuing education.