Canadian Certification

Originally Posted By: rwand1
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Here is how one should not behave.


Here is how two individuals can get away with calling anyone anything.


Here is how two individuals lie, and assist one another knowing the facts and allegations are completely false, and without being able to back it up with documentation.


Here is how the BOD of a self regulating society operate, by letting two individuals run wild, even condoning the fact these two have a sullied record and well known ability to circumvent the truth.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/C/CAHPI_National_3.htm

It would also seem CAHPI management has a very big problem on their hands and is knowingly permitting it to continue. There is no excuse. Now I guess I will be forced into contacting the appropriate people in government and Oahi and CAHPI.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
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I cannot speak for Bill or others. The unfortunate problem started by some NACHI members, once again writing a letter to the Minister. I can attest to Bill?s concern ? because my name was also brought up and tied into that letter. This is not the first time this has happened. But it?s obvious that the letter invoked investigation and questioning. When you are called on the carpet to explain ? it?s hard to fathom that it was anything other than simple fact and not a fallacy. So possibly some people have acquired an attitude against those intending ill will.


The continual ongoing air of mistrust and conspiracy theories, and dragging up old bygone issues does nothing but continue to foster division, and the - them versus us camps in this industry. It?s too bad because some seem positioned to destroy a good thing and potentially any credibility of the inspection industry at any cost. Additionally, some are out to destroy professional reputations of people in the process.


--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: rwand1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Claude,


Mr. Mullen along with Mr. Bottoms have made a serious allegations that I was part of a letter writing campaign to the Minister. They have continually for whatever motivation continued to spread falsities knowing them to be false. It is my understanding that such serious allegations must be backed up by evidence indicating their believes. They have not done so, they are unable to do so. They have been told repeatedly that if they believe what they are stating as truthful to file a complaint as provided and follow due process.

They like to preach they know a great deal about the by-laws, and other rules, yet their ignorance repeatedly demonstrates that they have no intention of following any rules, nor do they seem to appreciate the guarantees provided by the Charter of rights, specifically Freedom of Choice, Freedom of Association and the right to Free Speech.

Claude, you know full well my name was not any of the letters you refer to that were sent to the Minister, and if you do have such documentation I would request a copy.

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



clawrenson wrote:
I cannot speak for Bill or others. The unfortunate problem started by some NACHI members, once again writing a letter to the Minister. I can attest to Bill?s concern ? because my name was also brought up and tied into that letter. This is not the first time this has happened. But it?s obvious that the letter invoked investigation and questioning. When you are called on the carpet to explain ? it?s hard to fathom that it was anything other than simple fact and not a fallacy. So possibly some people have acquired an attitude against those intending ill will.

The continual ongoing air of mistrust and conspiracy theories, and dragging up old bygone issues does nothing but continue to foster division, and the - them versus us camps in this industry. It?s too bad because some seem positioned to destroy a good thing and potentially any credibility of the inspection industry at any cost. Additionally, some are out to destroy professional reputations of people in the process.

Claude it is a two way street.
Yes Questions where asked and answers not given .
Dragging up bygone issues as you say where brought upon by some being called LIARS by the other side .
It was continued to the point of boredom by them and now looks like it is on its way again.
There comes a time when a person must defend them selves .
Those who are very far from perfect still throw stones.
Having been in both associations and seen how things are run,
I really like this side and can see very little hope for the future until there is a complete change of attitude
for home inspectors here in Canada.
The Help and comradery from NACHI and all its members shows how things can be and should be done .
I feel that NACHI will continue to grow in Canada because of this.

NACHI Where Good Things Happen


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



You mean to tell me that my synopsis of the National Initiative and the cmhc is in error. Canada’s CMHC is not like the U.S.'s HUD?


I knew I was a dumb yankee. I guess I really will have to wait until the big unveiling date in October.

I'll bet it makes front Headline News in the "The Globe And Mail". I can see the photo now, CHIBO execs Bill Mullin and Dave Bottoms unveil National Initiative.


Originally Posted By: lewens
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Claude


It was I who wrote Mr. Fontana and the prime minister regarding this issue because I was assured by the powers that be, who I now find out didn’t have the authority, there would be no grandfathering. Then we see a post by one of the chibo officials that if you posess the proper credentials and are a member of OAHI you will be “given” accreditation without having to write an exam or do a practical test. If that is not grandfathering what is? I did not spread any hateful lies or anything that was not true, I only gave the facts as


they were presented to me. Now we come to find out that Bill Mullen had no authority after Feb this year to speak on behalf of CHIBO. So what was the reason he wanted to come and speak to all if asked? Was this to a smoke screen designed by CAHPI to confuse the issue? If CAHPI really wants to be the governing body of the home inspection industry in CANADA then I suggest they be more open as to their intentions and not try to run down other associations.



Just my usual 12.5 cents


From The Great White North Eh?
NACHI-CAN
www.aciss-brant.com
www.certifiedadulttrainingservices.com/

Originally Posted By: rwand1
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John,


It will be interesting to see the final document. It will be interesting to see how closely it resembles FNNBOA documentation, and how closely the final document will be in resemblence to the Draft documents.

It most certainly seems that some in Oahi management and CAHPI are condoning the actions of at least two players. As a result of the actions and statements of these two individuals I think it can be safe to assume the Certification process will be anything but objective and fair. The message being sent out is unacceptable and is contrary to what at least one of these people have stated publicly. There seems to be a big problem going on and it appears CAHPI is unwilling to do anything about it. Every Nachi members should be concerned about how they will be treated given the severity of the comments being made by Mr. Mullens and the Editor in Chief of the Canadian Home Inspectors Magazine (CAHPI).

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Ray - I was not privy to the names, nor do I have a copy of the letter. I was “queried” on the allegations. Why was I queried, because I was told that my name was noted in that letter, as well as others.


Roy - agreed its a 2-way street - but sometimes the street needs cleaning and people need to maintain it to build a fresh new start to that image to improve the neighbourhood. Chucking out trash needs to stop at the source - otherwise others feel it acceptable too.

Roy - fairly and honestly answers could not be given on a project in progress. Do you get to read a book before the author is finished writing it? Even right now I do not have a copy of the final document - its in the hands of CSC for final sign off. So that in itself is a matter of fact. So earlier allegations and letter writing campaigns are mute points.


--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jbowman wrote:
You mean to tell me that my synopsis of the National Initiative and the cmhc is in error. Canada's CMHC is not like the U.S.'s HUD?

I knew I was a dumb yankee. I guess I really will have to wait until the big unveiling date in October.

I'll bet it makes front Headline News in the "The Globe And Mail". I can see the photo now, CHIBO execs Bill Mullin and Dave Bottoms unveil National Initiative.

John I do believe you are just being a slight bit facietious . ( I love it )


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Larry you fairly acknowledge your letter, but there are others after that one. Case in point being over this past summer, and referenced back to discussions here on NACHI.



Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: rwand1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Claude,


Thanks for the info. I know my name is not on any documents, yet that is exactly what has been stated by Mr. Mullens, who seems to have a huge credibilty problem. Just how many times must Mr. Mullens put everyone in CAHPI in a bad light before he is told to shut-up, along with Mr. Bottoms who is aiding and abetting in this deceit?

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



clawrenson wrote:
Larry you fairly acknowledge your letter, but there are others after that one. Case in point being over this past summer, and referenced back to discussions here on NACHI.

I would like to thank those who wrote letters ,it at least let some of those in power that there are many other inspectors
out there who are far from satisfied in what is happening and how it far from a proper way to be treated.

For those who feel we should have sat back and done nothing I say sour grapes to you.
We are not mushrooms even though we have been fed a lot of BS.
Claude at least you have been steady and tried to put oil on troubled waters and I thank you
for all your efforts even when I have disagreed with you.
I hope we can be pleasantly surprised when the information comes down.
If not then I expect it will go into round two.


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



clawrenson wrote:
It?s too bad because some seem positioned to destroy a good thing and potentially any credibility of the inspection industry at any cost.


While reading through this thread, a couple of points seem to be coming to light and I would be grateful for clarification.

Mr. Lawrenson, in the above quote, makes an argument that seems to be the underlying thread of his (and others) support for this initiative. The same thought seems to control the minds of some in our industry in the USA. This is the idea that, somehow, government control equates to credibility.

I have never lived in Canada, but I do know that you all have a government controlled health care industry that makes health care available at a lower cost, due to government subsidation, but what about the quality of that care? Does it live up to a standard that you are happy with? This question is not rhetorical, for I have no idea how you might answer.

I know that, in the USA, the government controlled educational institutions are of the poorest quality, overall. Those of us with the means will opt for private schools and colleges which cost more but provide a better education. It is for this reason and other similar government failures that we resist the temptation to do the same to our health care system.

Now, why would government control of our industry in your country be an improvement to what you already have? Especially, government financial control that offered no government enforcement of any kind? It would appear, on its face, that you would only have the worst effect with no benefit.

Thank you for indulging me.


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



jbushart wrote:
clawrenson wrote:
It?s too bad because some seem positioned to destroy a good thing and potentially any credibility of the inspection industry at any cost.



I have never lived in Canada, but I do know that you all have a government controlled health care industry that makes health care available at a lower cost, due to government subsidation, but what about the quality of that care? Does it live up to a standard that you are happy with? This question is not rhetorical, for I have no idea how you might answer.

I know that, in the USA, the government controlled educational institutions are of the poorest quality, overall. Those of us with the means will opt for private schools and colleges which cost more but provide a better education. It is for this reason and other similar government failures that we resist the temptation to do the same to our health care system.

.

I feel are health system might not be perfect .
BUT it is great from what I have read and seen around the world it does a very good job.
I required an operation on my knee and was in with in three weeks .
My wife requires a cat scan again she will have it in less then three weeks. No Charge for either.
I and most are reasonably satisfied .
I also feel are education was great it is going through some changes but over all I still feel it does a fantastic job.
I can only hope ( I have my doubts ) that the new National initative can only do as well.
( I do not feel that enough information has been given or received from most Home Inspectors )
( it looks to me to be a very small click trying to get control )
I was an active member of the Canadian Association and they are too much of a closed door
( do not listen to the membership ) ( do not answer to the membership ).
You will be told it is sour grapes wrong .
My actions on the NACHI BB should tell you how I act and what my feelings are .
Their RHI membership has maintained a very balanced amount over many years .
I think it is 211 my last information for an association that is over 10 years old.
NACHI has well over 300 members in Ontario.
If you go to Toronto and do a search there are a large amount of inspectors who do not belong to any association .
My Feeling is why should a small group control so many HIs.


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: clawrenson
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



John - I cannot speak officially for CAHPI, but my read from the straw poll is based on two unscientific studies. First that most CAHPI inspectors seem to favour “self-regulation” or self-determination, while my poll a few months back here on NACHI seem to favour “legislation”.


http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=14912

Interesting to say the least! N'est pas! (Isn't it!) But aside from that, my instincts and position from a business perspective after talking about this is a hybrid version somewhere taking the best of each into account.

Is the Canadian government eager to license home inspectors? Again my pulse on the issue is NO. Does licensing equal credibility - again in my opinion - NO! But can we improve our lot to gain that credibility - YES. But we are not even close - some claim to be bigger, better, more qualified, or whatever - but the bottom line is education, proper training, more accurate reporting, auditing and accountability of all practicing practitioners - regardless of association. That is and was part and parcel of one of the significant needs to warrant the study and action plan for the National Initiative in Canada. Why because it impacts stakeholders like CMHC, as well as the consuming public. To not undertake a National Initiative - leaves the whole industry open for such control by the government. Possibly that would be at a much greater detriment than the current concerns. The U.S. has provided us with some classic examples of those outside influences at work. That's not to say Canada is perfect either.

Hopefully, I need not say more.


--
Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: rcooke
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



clawrenson wrote:

Interesting to say the least! N'est pas! (Isn't it!) But aside from that, my instincts and position from a business perspective after talking about this is a hybrid version somewhere taking the best of each into account.

Is the Canadian government eager to license home inspectors? Again my pulse on the issue is NO. Does licensing equal credibility - again in my opinion - NO! But can we improve our lot to gain that credibility - YES. But we are not even close - some claim to be bigger, better, more qualified, or whatever - but the bottom line is education, proper training, more accurate reporting, auditing and accountability of all practicing practitioners - regardless of association. That is and was part and parcel of one of the significant needs to warrant the study and action plan for the National Initiative in Canada. Why because it impacts stakeholders like CMHC, as well as the consuming public. To not undertake a National Initiative -.


Claude makes some great points we do need more education for many inspectors on both sides of the fence.
My biggest concern is it looks to me like the Majority of the HIs in Ontario have been completely left out of the loop .
Fortunately the inspectors who read this BB at least have more information then many .
Raymond and I have more knowledge on the education of the OAHI inspectors then most .
Raymond Being chair of the OAHI/ DPPC and I as one of the members we saw how the education is, of many members.
This again makes me very nervous when it looks like CAHPI/ONTARIO is going to have the say and control when they
are so poor in communicating with their own members let alone the balance of Ontario inspectors.
Past and continuing efforts prove this.


--
Roy Cooke Sr.

http://Royshomeinspection.com

Originally Posted By: John Bowman
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.





Is the Canadian government eager to license home inspectors? Again my pulse on the issue is NO. We agree on this. In fact those that I have spoken with say, that the government wants no part of legislation or regulation of Home Inspectors.

Does licensing equal credibility - again in my opinion - NO! Again I agree. But neither does self regulation or policing.


But can we improve our lot to gain that credibility - YES. But we are not even close - some claim to be bigger, better, more qualified, or whatever - but the bottom line is education, proper training, more accurate reporting, auditing and accountability of all practicing practitioners - regardless of association.

The Education should be made available for free. The rest is just downright dictatorship or operation of a police state. "Big Brother" comes to mind. At no time should an association, society, or Housing department dictate how someone should operate or qualify to own or operate a business. Auditing and Accountability of an individuals business. Give me a break ..... You guys are scaring the hell out of me. How your organization will absorb and assume the liability of every home inspector in Canada alone confuses me.

That is and was part and parcel of one of the significant needs to warrant the study and action plan for the National Initiative in Canada. Why because it impacts stakeholders like CMHC, as well as the consuming public. To not undertake a National Initiative - leaves the whole industry open for such control by the government.

We both just agreed that the Government wanted no hand in it. Did you change your mind.

Possibly that would be at a much greater detriment than the current concerns. The U.S. has provided us with some classic examples of those outside influences at work.

Please give me an example of the U.S. influence. Our U.S. Government is influencing what??

That's not to say Canada is perfect either. This may be the problem. Quit speaking as though your are representing Canada.
Hopefully, I need not say more

Sorry, I haven't really heard or read anything yet, so yea may have to. Is the initiative backed or mandated by the Canadian Government in anyway shape or form? Let me help you - NO. Again NO. What a waste of time and energy. No one in their right mind should volunteer to be policed or dictated by a select few.


Originally Posted By: clawrenson
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So James, respectfully what is you take on my last response above, RE: my take on legislation, etc. I can appreciate John’s but may find yours equally as enlightening.



Ontario Home Inspections Inc.

Originally Posted By: jbushart
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Claude,


Does your government regulate building contractors in any way?


--
Home Inspection Services of Missouri
www.missourihomeinspection.com

"We're NACHI. Get over it."

www.monachi.org

Originally Posted By: rwand1
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



You can see by the latest link that CAHPI is uncapable and unwilling to deal with a real menace, and a degenerate who obviously has emotional problems. Yes everyone should be frieghtened of the abuse of power, because that is what it is and its being tolerated. Seems some in CAHPI have a problem with Nachi and it’s threats imagined or otherwise.


How can anyone put any faith in anything CAHPI says or does when you have two individuals running around shooting their mouths off? Nice image to be portraying. One can only wonder what they will say next. Here Claude is trying to be professional and in the background he is being undermined by these two. Claude you need to find new friends and fast! ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/C/Cahpi_National_page_2.htm

Raymond Wand
Alton, ON


--
Raymond Wand
Alton, ON
The value of experience is not in seeing much,
but in seeing wisely. - Sir William Osler 1905
NACHI Member
Registered Home Inspector (OAHI)
http://www.raymondwand.ca