Canadian reporter asking about associations. Help, I need the facts.

The following is based on my personal viewpoint. It is not intended to reflect the views of CAHPI or the NCA.
It was extremely unfortunate that NACHI publicly posted and decided to take the position of warning its members not to waste their money. That is now and will remain a matter of public record, obtained right here from the forum based on a post by Nick to the Canadian NACHI members.

In addition, it is my understanding that NACHI and NICK himself as well as Robert Brown were also sent an invite to have its education, courses, and Canadian members apply for recognition. These are all key ingredients in assuring benchmarking of competency for assessment of NACHI applicants. To date a number of NACHI members have chosen to participate, a number have completed their TIPR and are awaiting results of their “background” review. Also a few have decided to publicly protest their participation and have dropped out. That is certainly their choice.

To this date nothing has transpired to signal NACHI’s willingness of participation. Albeit at times possibly there have been a few mixed signals. Even a vote in the poll posted by less than two dozen members does not equate to large resounding win that NACHI members choose not to participate. That is certainly a matter of ones choice. But it is also equally inopportune that some choose to attack the tangible benefits of professionalizing home inspectors in Canada, by trying to look at the politics of associations versus the betterment of all home inspectors in Canada as a profession (void of association). Those messages were heard loud and clear and seemed to speak to the indolence of those opposed to national certification. As Bill has noted, it would be foolish to post statements without documentations of support to prove time and time again the other side of the issue. Certainly previous attempts and letter writing campaigns have been offered to claim that fairness is not part of the CAHPI vocabulary. That is a far stretch from the real fact. Certainly there have been many heated words communicated on both sides of this debate, but that does not equate to tainting and portraying every person as corrupt and unethical, regardless of membership affiliation.

The case in point being my recent post presented here for Bill. His response would never see the light of day here – so he asked me if I would kindly post it. Once again, it seems it’s as expected met with unfair comments, and pointed personal attacks and innuendoes. That proves to be the exact point of really how unprofessional we can really become. Again, it’s interesting to see the blame deflected at others involved in the process, while choosing to ignore the prospect of fairness and open mindedness at the cost of profligacy and protectionism. Perhaps if Canadian NACHI members really want a “stronger” voice to support those that have decided to ignore the “waste your money” comment and seized the opportunity to do what was in their own best interest. Perhaps they also see it in a different light!

Claude, I am most disappointed in your reply. Not becasue of your inability to move away from the stockade mentallity of C.A.P.H.I. as that was completely expected. No, the disappointment arrises from you ( Bill?) once again hiding behind the claim of my posting “unfair”, “pointed and personal attacks” and “innuendoes”.

Frankly I find that comment not a little insulting.

I asked that C.A.P.H.I. move beyond their personal and professional hatred of N.A.C.H.I. members and this organization and it has been shown once again that ‘you’ are incapable of doing so. That, sir, is why the national programme is doomed.

As I stated above, N.A.C.H.I. members are not “ditto-heads”. We make up our own minds. We, and roughly 4000 other inspectors have waited and are waiting for some kind of olive branch from C.A.P.H.I. It appears as though we wait in vain.

On a personal note; please inform Mr. Mullen that I did not use the above letter to insult him. Believe me. If I had wanted to insult Mr. Mullen he would have known the difference.

Claude responded with…

Again the info was posted. Many voiced their concerns and opinions. It was decided not to partake because of the misinformation that was shown to disseminate from CAHPI, not once or twice, but repeatedly.
To show such disdain I suppose Mr. Mullen would have no problem in releasing archived posts from his CANUCK list?

Again lets compare apples to apples. I have many posts from various people who post on the CANUCK list and there are many, many worrisome posts which are questionable in their information and tone regarding NACHI, members and Nick. Yes comments from members of NACHI are on public record because “we” have the right to voice our opinions, are free to associate with whom we choose, and free to make our own decisions based on what was present or in the case of CAHPI that information that was not presented.

I fail to see the bearing of the above view. Mr. Brown does not speak for me and many others. Nick has made statements on Certification based on what he found out, but at no time did Nick or Robert Brown speak without consultation. And obviously many have seen the light on this whole matter because unlike OAHI no one pulled the public information posted for everyone to see and read and come to their own conclusions. Ditto the CAHPI board before it was pulled. This was nothing but blatant interference in the flow of information. Then you wonder why so much vehemence has been expressed here on the NACHI board.

Here we go again. NO IT DOES NOT! This whole program is based on certification meeting CAN P9, which it does not. That means the program is not complient! It is also now known that other matters have come to light that no one ever mentioned and it appears this whole program is a make-it-up as you go. There is also a major concern of people having been appointed to positions without any democratic process. It is also apparent there is political infighting, turf wars and outright arrogance on the make up of the BOD and who was appointed to the Nat. Cert. Agency. Call it what you want it is nothing more then friends appointing others to a clique. They have even gone so far as to protect one another.

Freedom of choice. I like to think that those of us who dropped out saw the manipulation of due process and fairness. It certainly appears from the evidence over the years CAHPI never had any intention of including anyone but themselves, until that is NACHI members began to see what was going on because we were permitted to post info that otherwise would not have been known outside the circles of CAHPI.

And ditto those comments regarding CAHPI.

Is that poll any different then the CHIBO documents where many decisions were based on a poll of approx. 69 members? Sixty nine members representing the rest? Sixty nine people determining the future of us all. Mixed with self appointed agenda driveng directors?

Tangible benefits? What tangible benefits? Everyone I think wants co operation. Everyone wants a unified standard. Everyone wants to better themselves. What people don’t want is a system which is flawed with its own infighting, politics, clique mentality, or being reviewed by the likes of certain people who once again were appointed base on who they know not what they know. For the record I would not let myself be reviewed by the likes of whom you Claude have appointed. You appear to have fallen into your many roles by the same process. Where is the credibility of fairness. Who is ensuring professionalism from CAHPI and OAHI? Apparently no one.

What? You are kidding right? I all by myself posted many public documents about Nat. Cert. Chibo, et ceteras on the OAHI CAFE for members to see and decide for themselves and to come to their own conclusions because all the info at that point was what CAHPI wanted disseminated. As a result of the fruits of my labour to make people knowledgeable on what was about to unfold, the consipritorial actions of management had my posts removed, and subsequently I was suspended from defending myself from the likes of Mr. Mullen and his side kick Mr. Bottoms. Not to mention theirs and others comments on the CAFE. Fortunatley people are beginning to see the light of what is going on and what has gone on. Because you folks are only accountable to yourselves all this has been buried. There in lies the problem; self regulation wherein the self appointed do as they please and are not accountable because of make up of the body itself.

You have no one to blame but yourselfs. You are using taxpayer money, members money, and members good will. CAHPI through its spokesperson Mr. Mullen and a few others have caused the letter writing because people saw through the baloney of poor governance and poor communication, and protection of certain parties because of their connections. Even Mr. Guihan seems to lack ability to reply or act with a standard of care or due diligence and he’s the President? Just runs the show at HQ?

And do you really think Mr. Mullen would allow the same courtesy on his CANUCK list? Absolutely not. Do you really think Mr. Mullen would have permitted posting of public links to documentation that would reveal for all to make up their own minds? I don’t think so. Respect begets respect.

Well no one has proven any benefits to National Certification. No one has proven it will improve our lot. No one has proven the system is fair because of the remaining issues with appointments. No one has been cognizant to release a finnished product. No one has been cognizant to ensure this program meets CAN P9. No one can assure some of the TIPR inspectors do not have conflicts. No one can prove that anyone will get a fair shake as a member of another competing body.

What is needed is a fair and representative body that speaks for all, acts for all, ensures good governance, accountability and openess. What is also needed most is a democratic process.

As to my offer to privately email NACHI members information which shows the National is possibly being made up as it goes is a concern and goes back to why it is so important to ensure compliance with CAN P9 to ensure the body overseeing this fiasco is doing the right things. So far that is a far reach.

George - I condone personal attacks and unfair treatment. Yes, it has happened on both sides, but there seems to be a few that perpetually keep stirring that pot. The facts on many claims outside of the issue of name calling are yet to proven one way or the other. Yes there are two paths of information, CAHPIs and NACHIs, it unfortunate the two have not come closer together.

My message simply indicates that it appears both sides of the issue claim they have facts supporting their POV. In my opinion both sides have bad mouthed - so does that make it right? Not in my way of thinking. But I also agree and hope that the line towards a common goal should be the target, not the ongoing banter about who is biggest, or best, or the claims about the old boy network!

I simply wish we could all learn to get along!

Another thing that should not be overlooked in all of this is the repeated abuse of OAHI members who for what ever personal choice also are members in NACHI. There has been an undercurrent of distrust by OAHI of NACHI members, and this worrisome policy was echoed in the OAHI news letter by none other then the Chair of the DPPC, who by gosh is also on the executive of CAHPI. That includes OAHI’s abuse of power by reporting members who were using CHI as per ASTTBC. At no time were these OAHI members presented with anything but a directive to clean up or you will be drummed out. This same mentality has permeated the National way of thinking. Fines have been levied, and accusations made in letter from OAHI without so much as presenting the evidence. People have been intimidated by directors and fines collected all based on accusations. Its pathetic.

Now I understand that Claude has fallen from grace within OAHI on the Technical Review Committee because of his opinions and views expressed here. The committee has been taken over by one person who in my opinion is part of the major problem within OAHI. But this is the way the system works.

One must also not forget that OAHI was and is a major player in CAHPI and certain elements have sold out OAHI and its members by stiffling information. Information that has been filtred and slanted to suit an agenda. OAHI has intwined itself in CAHPI, but the fact remains a provincial body that is part of the overall scheme of Certification has its own accountabilty problems, hiding of financial info, minutes, and denial of service all based on directives which are legally questionable because these decision do not fit within the confines of the by-laws. The system is rotten, and the best thing to correct the misguidance is for the executive of OAHI and CAHPI to resign along with a few committee members who have to much power and protect each other. A self regulating body has no business conducting its affairs in such manners, nor does a self regulating body entitle it to do as it pleases for the benefit of a few.

…Sorry why should NACHI wish to support CAHPI we have been treated like mushrooms from the get go. It is up to CAHPI to take take olive Branch they offered before and then CAHPI proceeded to destroy it in less then 24 hours .
Why should we feel they can be any different now .
Roy Cooke …

"George - I condone personal attacks and unfair treatment."

Don’t you just hate ‘typos’? Claude, I assume that you meant " I do not condone . . . "

I agree fully with your stated desires. It would be great if we all could get along as equals; equals in the National and equals in the business. Until C.A.P.H.I. learns that N.A.C.H.I inspectors are equal in every way then there can be no involvement of N.A.C.H.I. Name calling advances nobody’s cause and only serves to set us apart. However it takes a better man than I am to be called a ‘human rectum’ or worse and in return smile and say thank you.

How C.A.P.H.I. / O.A.H.I. stop their local representatives ( some of whom have been appointed as applicant interrogators) from their personal attacks on N.A.C.H.I. and members will prove to be a greater challenge. There is one representative of C.A.P.H.I. who routinely bashes N.A.C.H.I. and members, personally attacks the reputations of inspectors in the area, spreads rumors of legal troubles, financial troubles and goes as far as removing business cards and brochures from realtors offices in an attempt to damage his competition. With this sort of representative at the local level, how you will accomplish your vision is a very good question. With this sort of representative can you expect the average N.A.C.H.I. member or non-aligned inspector to want to be involved in the national?

There are as many reasons as members in all three organizations to continue down this path. Hopefully as we N.A.C.H.I. members bring order to our own house C.A.P.H.I. / O.A.H.I. will be seen to do the same to theirs. Clearly the first move toward reconciliation must come from C.A.P.H.I. / O.A.H.I. as the mandate was to involve as many Canadian Inspectors as possible and to date that has equally clearly not been done.

Here’s hoping.

Thanks George - that is what I meant!

Level heads will prevail in the end. We all have to work together to make the industry a better place for the consumer. Cutting up one group or the other does not help the public and as much as we are in business for profit, our ultimate goal is to aid the buying public to make a decision based on our report. To demean the industry in any way is counterproductive to the goal.
Larry

It seems to me that NACHI is equal to or better then other HI assoc.
The wording of the above says to me that you have a Superior attitude and that NACHI must submit. Well that will not happen. If you had invited NACHI’s input as a partner maybe the responce to your invitation would have been more positive.

Sorry Claude. Must be thick today. What “is what I meant”?

Nick do we have a brochure that outlines all the qualifications required to be certified by NACHI and to become a CMI?

The reason I’m asking is that there seems be be a lot of misinformation about NACHI’s standards.
My plan is to distribute the brochere to all the real estate offices along with a list of all the NACHI certified HI’s in this area.

Can you help me out here?

George, Maybe it was a Freudian slip.:stuck_out_tongue: :stuck_out_tongue:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freudian_slip

The best way to contact NICK or NACHI at any time is …
FastReply@nachi.org** This gets immediate attention ,. **
Nick does not get to read all post’s but I am surprised how well he does .
http://www.nachi.org/cmi.htm for more info on CMI

Roy Cooke

Freud wore a slip? Kinky. :wink:

Hey Nick, here is another half hearted attempt at good SOP, but they don’t come close to Nachi’s

http://bcipi.asttbc.org/standards-scope.html
http://bcipi.asttbc.org/standards-sfd.html

How come the BCIP so little members?

Roy I have sent two emails to the fast reply and have not got a reply. Not very fast. Fast is a reply within 24 hours.

I have to admit this is very unusual for NICK to not have answered Immediately ,48 hours is bad . Sorry Roy Cooke

James I saw many members listed through out BC. Some may be duplicate listings for territories covered. This seems to be the favoured association by BC government by all accounts? I read one consultants report (independent) and the conclusion was licencing was the best long term solution.

What do you think will happen to your business with licencing? Are they only going to accept ASTT members or BCIPI members to exclusion of others with licencing?

What role does Nachi play in this unfolding situation in BC? Who is looking out after you and your Nachi members in BC?

Cheers,