Certified Master Inspector myths

How would you answer the critics (and you know there will be many coming from associations that want to believe that membership in their organization is all you need to be “elite”) who claim to “ace” the CMI Exam and got a lower score on the NHIE?

I guess what I am asking is, knowing there will always - and I emphasize ALWAYS - be those targeting any designation higher than theirs for criticism and abuse: How far do you go? If you required a phD to be a CMI, there will be a phD with a higher GPA who will argue that the phDs with lower GPAs are a danger to to the public and should not be allowed to inspect.

IMO — effort expended to try to appease critics is a waste of time. You will not silence them. You may divert their attention for a moment, but they will find something else

There is presently no designation for an inspector who reaches the pinnacle of 1000 inspections, except CMI. How does it hurt the profession to acknowledge that level of experience with its own designation? Consider this while also considering the number of states who use the much lower numbers of 100 or 250 inspections to allow inspectors to be “grandfathered” and by-pass testing all together.

I’m not even attempting to appease or satisfy any critics. I’m looking at this in real world terms.

The Realtor with a GRI status took a class and had to have a passing grade on an exam.

The Master Electrician had to have experience, and pass an exam.

I would just state that a reasonable but difficult exam should accompany the 1000 inspection/class hours requirement. I thought that CMI was supposed to show the inspector had the requisite knowledge and experience. If there is no test for knowledge, how do we know they have it?

States with licensing have a basic test requirement (often the NHIE). CMI should be able to market itself as a step above (I think a big step) any state license.

If I use Nick’s ashi argument, send a check and perform 250 unsupervised inspections…what is the cmi difference? Send a check and perform 1000 unsupervised inspections?

It’s difficult to define a master inspector. I think that the more requirements that are in place and met, the more the person with the designation will be set apart (hopefully above) from the standard licensed inspector.

This debate rests upon one question.

Let’s take HVAC (or substitute with any other system).

Write one test question concerning information that a CMI should know about HVAC that an inspector conducting his first inspection in accordance with the SOP, should not also be required to know.

Even simpler than that.

Supposedly the average passing score on our exam is 75% or thereabouts, and around the same on the NHIE. Perhaps a good exam would begin with all of the questions that are most often missed by the “average” inspector??

I’m not a good test question writer, but I would think that someone who is could easily write questions like that. You know, questions that the “average” inspector would write on their report “further evaluation needed” that the CMI should know???

I guess by your questioning that you are opposed to any requirement to test for knowledge thereby raising a standard?

If CMI is simply going to recognize that a person has 1000 inspections, then fine. Market it that way. But 1000 inspections does not make one a master. Neither does 5000 in an of itself, and I know, because I’m not a master.

Is a CMI not still a “generalist” whose expertise comes from recognizing defects (not solutions) and accurately reporting them?

A CMI will not be diagnosing the structural integrity of house with a major (1/2 inch) foundation crack, will he? Does he not govern his inspections by the existing SOP…the one that you and I both use?

Who Polices the Police?

CMI as I’ve said before is not a bad Idea, but from the way it was originally set up it has no credibility, now an Inspector needs 1000 Inspections, a year ago he didn’t need any, CMI’s who do not meet todays qualifications are still CMI’s, that, as James likes to say, makes everyone equal, an Inspector who really does have more than 1000 Inspections uses the same designation as one who has maybe never yet performed an Inspection. What then does the “Master” in CMI mean?

In most professions,tests and proof of experience are required for any higher designation, these tests are almost always proctored. Myself I would be embarassed to claim to be a CMI, I have too many friends who are Master Electircians, Plumbers, and Carpenters, for me to pay $75 or $375 and then Claim to be equal to them.
**
Master electrician** - 12,000 hours of on-the-job training under supervision of master electrician and pass the master electrician examination Journeyman electrician - 8,000 hours of on-the-job training under supervision of a master electrician and pass the journeyman electrician examination.

In my opinion a “Master” Inspector should, at the least, be ICC Certified in several fields and be required to pass a proctored exam, along with proof of experience

MASTER: a person eminently skilled in something, as an occupation, art, or science

Yep and I remember when if you called your self an electrician you got a license the same thing happened for auto mechanics.
They all started the same way.
I wonder why you who are not a CMI is so concerned ?

i do not recommend further evaluation because I do not know how to fix it, I write it that way to limit my liability. there is not much that I cannot fix or recommend what should be fixed. I am hired to report on the problems, not offer solutions, that is best left to the contractors. James makes an excellent point, where do you stop, when do you stop raising the bar? The way it is done in every other profession is; if you are a general physician and want to go further you become a Neuro Surgeon, but we cannot do that. The very nature of our business dictates that we remain generalist. Unless of course we decide to specialize in Mold or Radon. To me a master inspector would be one who has mastered all of the inspection fields, he can inspect anything anywhere using all tools and methods, Residential, commercial, enviromental, all of it, not part of it. I’m sorry, but that is the way I see it. I hate to be the one who says this but I will, we should not be afraid of having different tiers in this profession, what you are trying to do with CMI Should really be CEI as in Certified Expert Inspector, then CEI 2, CEI 3 then CMI. In other words expert generalist inspector, then expert generalist plus mold would be CEI 1, then add on Radon for CEI 2 then Thermal Imaging CEI 3. You see where I’m going with this? I could qualify right now for CMI, but I won’t because I don’t have time to make it work, it would be a waste for me, but I think all inspectors should strive for the goal, it is a worthy goal. AUJMO

Yep and I remember when if you called your self an electrician you got a license the same thing happened for auto mechanics.
They all started the same way.
I wonder why you who is not a CMI is so concerned ?

Yep and I remember when if you called your self an electrician you got a license the same thing happened for auto mechanics.
They all started the same way.
I wonder why you who is not a CMI is so concerned ?

I just enjoy irritating members of an organization that is in competition with NACHI, many here do the same thing to ASHI, NAHI, and any other organization they don’t approve of and don’t belong to. CMI is a “separate” organization isn’t it?

If you were a Master Electrician would you feel that the Master Designation was worth anything if someone could buy it for $75 or $375, you have "master Inspectors who have done just that.

From posts here though CMI does seem to have some credibility as a Marketing tool, but for a lot less you could give yourself a “Master” designation, of course you’d have to come up with your own logo.

There will be a CMI message board at www.certifiedmaster.com by the end of the week. The site is still under construction. I am a little slow I never worked with unix before. Ill post when it is up

Taking the “capaulisms” out of the equation…since they are purely argumentative, and meant to be…can any credible argument be made against creating a designation for a home inspector who has achieved 1000 home inspections?

Think of the real estate salesman who sold his 1000th home. Would he not use that as a marketing tool like he does when he sells six in a year and calls himself a member of the “Million Dollar Club”?

Yes he would, he say that he has sold more than 1000 Homes, or as an Inspector he had performed more than 1000 Inspections, CMI is only a Logo that doesn’t gurantee that the Inspector is telling the truth, and as I said some CMI’s still may not have performed any inspections at all.

If the Realtor wants to use a Higher Designation provided by NAR or his association then he needs to prove that he has obtained the proper training and take a proctored exam.

Nothing wrong with claiming your experience, only in implying that it makes you a “Master” of your profession.

I thought you were the one seeking pity Ken. Are you still typing with only one finger?

Did yu join NACHI to see if you could break Windy’s posting record? You’ll never make it at this rate, you’ll need more than one finger to keep up with her.

BINGO!!! I have made this point for years!!!

How exactly does one prove he is a MASTER generalist?

CMI is a marketing tool, pure and simple, and at this point nothing else.

Nick had interesting ideas and points when he applied a points system to the CMI designation years ago. Many of the points were for items above and beyond a standard visual inspection. Like for the use of moisture meters, infrared cameras, etc.

I’m still waiting after several years for a definition of a “master generalist”. I’ve seen several, and some sounded good, but none really hit it on the head.

I guess you have not been following all the posts .
Now When I sent mine in I had to have it Notarized as proof.
Now lets just say I end up in Court and the lawyers asks for my proof and I can not supply if .
You can be sure I just lost my case.
One lie like a hole in a boat will make it sink

Roy, Did I miss the Post where all CMI’s who joined when the requirements were $75 and 150 hours of training had their Certifications revoked by the CMI Board?

When CMI first began it was possible for someone to be a MASTER without ever having performed an inspection and with only minimal education. There are still those in your organization, CMI, that do not meet even the new qualifications, and there are those who would lie to a Notary, actually if they had any education at all they could claim it as being substantally relevant to Inspection, that is all CMI requires. Do trade schools count, carpentry, plumbing, electrician, engineering, soils, roofing etc?

CMI is a Marketing Gimmick, that’s about all, it probably works to some extent, as long as no one asks about how you were certified as a Master.

Lewis, although we made a few changes to the requirements in the first few weeks of launching it, every CMI application was approved based solely on the requirements in effect at the time. We haven’t made any changes since the first few weeks after launch. We were unable to find any organization or professional designation administrator or license issuer that revokes existing member’s memberships, revokes existing designation holder’s designations, or revokes existing licensee’s licenses when new requirements are added. As said in my initial post, we are considering adding an additional requirement to CMI. When and if we do, existing CMI’s designations will not be revoked either. I happen to have had several professional designations and licenses (in other industries) when requirements for them changed. I did not lose my designations or licenses either.

As to your point about the cost, I don’t understand. First, MICB never charged as little as $75, but if it did… so what? If your state raises the cost of a driver’s license, do they send you a bill for all the years you paid less? What does CMI’s affordability have to do with anything?

That’s the first thing you’ve said about CMI that I agree with Nick, the problem is that your first requirements were so ridicuously low that they have destroyed any credibility that CMI may someday deserve. You still have no test and no verification of standards, only the word of the applicant. As long as there are CMI’s who became so without the requirement to have ever conducted an Inspection, then the designation will be only a marketing tool. Somethings are ruined at the start. As it stands CMI is a phony, purchased designation, from another organization in competition with NACHI Members and ME. It’s a Marketing gimmick that works for some, and from the post of your henchmen, it seems that it IS part of NACHI, not a separate enity.