Change to Standards of Practice

Originally Posted By: gbell
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Is it possible to protect any inspector who doesn’t notice or test a visible required component of the structure.



Greg Bell


Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: mrichardson
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There is also the matter of how GFCIs are tested, and whether every recepticle on a protected circuit is tested for actual ground fault protection.


Mike


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I hope so. I can think of many scenerios where a GFCI would be visible but not be noticed. Along a Garage wall with shelving where the receptacle is clearly visible, if you knew where to look and from what angle.


I have Blaine's modified OK'd on this end... any strong objections?

"test all GFCI receptacle and GFCI circuit breakers noticed during the inspection"


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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We can exchange “all” for “every” if we want.



Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: jstewart1
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come on Jerry, they had it right . why would you want to take heat for something hidden? With all due respect icon_smile.gif


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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We can’t exchange “noticed” for “found” or “visible” or “readily accessible” though.



Nick Gromicko


Founder


dues=79cents/day.


I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: gbell
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can we change noticed to observed



Greg Bell


Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: mrichardson
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Wow, I actually raised an issue while Jerry P was addressing it. icon_biggrin.gif


Mike


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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Greg, correct… either is fine.


We want the inspector to be able to swear in court that "I tested every GFCI that I noticed." or "I tested all GFCI's I observed."


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: rwills
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How about “Tested all GFCI outlets in clear view?” or “that were not obscured”



Bob Wills - MAB Chairman


BW Inspection Services


Warminster, Pa.


http://www.bwinspections.com

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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We want the SOP to protect the consumer by requiring the inspector to check every GFCI that he sees… not just a representative sample.


and

We want the SOP to protect the inspector by not requiring him to have tested a GFCI that he didn't see... impossible.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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What type of appliance was this behind?



BPedley


Inspecting for the unexpected

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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so change found to observed.


Originally Posted By: gbell
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Just a thought but in most cases the answering machine and phone system is on one of the GFCI circuits in the kitchen. I usually do not test that circuit and inform my client why.



Greg Bell


Bell Inspection Service

Originally Posted By: mrichardson
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I vote for “observed”. “Noticed” has a casual or even unintentional connotation.


There remains the need to clarify whether we are speaking of GFCIs or protected receptacles.

Mike


Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Look up to my last post!!! icon_question.gif icon_question.gif



BPedley


Inspecting for the unexpected

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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I’m on the phone with Joe Farsetta, chair of the committee too.


Basically, we can't have an inspector fail to test a GFCI that he observes on the grounds that he has already tested a representative number of receptacles in that room. Because of the safety issue, this excuse won't fly in front of a judge.

We also don't want to burden the inspector with a requirement to find every GFCI.

Therefore we end up with the following:

"test all GFCI receptacles and GFCI circuit breakers observed and deemed to be GFCI's during the inspection"


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Quote:
test all GFCI receptacle and GFCI circuit breakers observed


Bingo!


Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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This way, if you observe a receptacle that you believe is a GFCI, you have a duty to test it, regardless of how many other receptacles you’ve tested but you don’t have a duty to test it if you didn’t observe it or if you didn’t think it was a GFCI.


This covers us with regard to centrally protected circuits and covers the consumer with regard to testing a GFCI you notice to be a GFCI.


--
Nick Gromicko
Founder
dues=79cents/day.

I much prefer email to private messages.

Originally Posted By: jpeck
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gromicko wrote:
I hope so. I can think of many scenerios where a GFCI would be visible but not be noticed. Along a Garage wall with shelving where the receptacle is clearly visible, if you knew where to look and from what angle.

I have Blaine's modified OK'd on this end... any strong objections?

"test all GFCI receptacle and GFCI circuit breakers noticed during the inspection"


You are still leaving out ALL other GFCI devices.

You've ONLY included receptacles and breakers.

The three bathrooms with spa tubs in the house I did today, built 12 years ago, have GFCI devices, not a receptacle and not a breaker.


--
Jerry Peck
South Florida