Originally Posted By: John Bowman
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Dan,
I knew you would be on top of this. I kind of led you with my question. Nice job.
Dan,
I knew you would be on top of this. I kind of led you with my question. Nice job.
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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You’d make a good lawyer with the leading questions. Course in that suit you look like one.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: sspradling
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So easy to check. So easy to write “recommend anti tip bracket for stove”. Parents with small children will appreciate your attention to detail, and mentioning the safety of their young ones. Why even argue whether this should be done? We all check all we can for safety, right? Safety glazing or tempered glass where required, bedroom windows that may be painted shut, trip hazards, loose handrails, rotten stairs, gas leaks, etc. For those HI’s who don’t have small kids, they move fast, their attention span is short and will go from playing in the living room to what’s cooking on the stove in less than a heart beat. Sure, accidents happen, but when we can help prevent one, do it.
Stu
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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| Quote: |
| A free standing stove is personal property.
Are we not inspecting real property? Mike P. |
Good point Mike. We do not ,according to our SOP's, have to check aplliances. Some of us do. It is a good point though and I would think that as long as you refrain from checking other aplliances your liability would be less as it is exluded from your sop's. But don't check the dish washer or washer or dryer, etc. or be prepared to open some liability. I for one include this, because clients in my market demand it.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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And stuart hit the nail on the head. It would take you two seconds to check this, and a sentence to report. No we don’t have to include many of the things we do. It is that extra detail that sets us apart. Take a look at the report comment thread I started as part of the Safe House Campaign. http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/viewtopic.php?t=3434. The comments can be cut and paste into a report. Do you think the realtor will remember the inspector who does or doesn’t catch the missing bracket. And if you take the extra paragraph to explain WHY it is important they will definitely take notice to things like that.
I include all sorts of comments in my report that are designed to educate not just on problems or components but WHY repair or the component is necessary.
And people are taking notice to things like that. Realtors comment on it, clients comment on it. And guess what, it takes no more time to do it. For instance, I check smoke alarms like everyone. But I also include comments to check the battery regularly, to design a fire escape plan, with a link to FEMA info, and suggestion to place one in every bedroom and hall even though it may not be a requirement. I don't have to do this. It takes me two seconds to click the button to add the saved comment. But it may get even one person to think about it and save them.
NACHI is fast becoming known for our "difference". Believe me, we have seen it already. If you don't want to check the damn stove, don't. But if you take the couple seconds to do it and explain about it, I really think clients and realtors will notice that.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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| Chris Butler wrote: |
| But HI's are treated as professionals and thus are considered experts and it should have been noted. |
Maybe these "safety" issues need to be included in our SOP's as they directly impact on home owner security and our liabilities.
Regards
Gerry
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Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I think many “safety issues” fall within what “should” be in a home inspection but is NOT part of the SOP’s. My reason for the comment tthread.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: John Bowman
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LawTalk
http://www.fonhink.com/lawtalk/lt-stove.html
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Excelent explanation. I guess the hefty woman should have been watched by her parents.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: darmstrong
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How long have the anti-tip brackets been installed on ranges? Isn’t this fairly new? And can one be installed on an older range?
Danny
Originally Posted By: evandeven
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| Quote: |
| Excellent explanation. I guess the hefty woman should have been watched by her parents. |
Maybe she should have been taught by her parents not to reach into an oven with a pot of boiling water on the cook top!
Perhaps the SOPs need to be changed to address these issues of safety. It wold elevate NACHI inspectors above the rest just on that alone.
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Eric Van De Ven
Owner/Inspector
Magnum Inspections Inc.
I get paid to be suspicious when there is nothing to be suspicious about!
www.magnuminspections.com
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I agree. I don’t get the arguments against it, since the time added is minimal.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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Daniel
"But don't check the dish washer or washer or dryer, etc. or be prepared to open some liability. I for one include this, because clients in my market demand it."
Dishwasher yes because it is real property. The others no because I am not the Maytag repairman.
"since the time added is minimal."
You are correct.
My clients are paying me to find major problems with their 'new' home.
I tell them that if a shutter or something obvious is missing or damaged that I will point it out but that is not why I am there.
They are concerned with the major components and that is why I am there.
I do not concern myself with things that an average person should know.
Example do not place this ladder in the mud. (and yes someone won this case).
As stated earlier professional is the key. I never worry about some goofball suing me. Why? Because 1st I know what I am doing, 2nd Is that I have the pieces of paper to back me up, and third I do a compentent job.
What I am tring to say is TELL your clients who you are and why you are there. This will do more to stop problems than anything else.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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Mike, if by problems you are refering to safety hazards that exist, how will telling them about you help? All I am saying is it is simple for NACHI members to keep up the reputation we are building by simply and quickly educating clients to safety hazards. Of course, there must be a reason you are NOT a member.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: Mike Parks
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I am waiting until May.
I want to see how NACHI is going to market itself in Ohio.
Kind of like test driving a car before you buy it. Since my 'car' is running fine I want to make sure that the new one is better before I buy.
Mike P.
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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I’d bite, that is another thread in itself.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Part of our SOP already addresses safety issues. We check for defects that are material and in that definition includes “an unreasonable risk to the people on the property”. I would say that pretty much includes safety items, and leaves us latitude on what we check.
Thinking about that, it also leaves an interpretation for a lawyer. Lets see, you checked the stove for an anti tip device, but not the clothes dryer. The child was injured standing on the dryer door when it tipped over..........
A lawyer once told me, the more things you check in an inspection, the more you can get sued for 
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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True, but I will not let the threat of a lawsuit stop me from trying to protect my clients. The biggest compliment I get is from clients telling me how much they now know about their new home. I mean honestly, something could go wrong with any one of the many things you check. Doesn’t matter that it is not your fault, they can still sue you. I’d rather save a few people with knowledge, and risk getting a frivolous lawsuit. I protect myself by being thorough, and trough a powerfully written contract.
As for the dryer vs. stove. Is there an anti-tip device for the dryer that manufacturers include as hardware? Either way, report what you do and nothing more. If you check the range report it, If you do not check the dryer, don't report it. When they sue you, you can refer back and show that it was not included as part of your inspectio nor is it in your SOP's as a requirement. And if your contract is like mine, you can pull the clause that says anything above the normal SOP's is just as a courtesy and that it does not mean you have to include anything else extra that is not in the SOP.
You can't live in fear of lawsuits, you can protect yourself and your clients too.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com
Originally Posted By: dfrend
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The Home Safety Council (www.homesafetycouncil.org) recommends appliance anti-tip brackets for ALL appliances. The NACHI Safe House Campaign supports this suggestion, and requests that NACHI members check these devices and suggest adding them in their absence.
The above is just a request to support the Safe House Campaign Partners in their efforts, as they are supporting us. Thank you to all members who help with the Foundation's efforts in safety.
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Daniel R Frend
www.nachifoundation.org
The Home Inspector Store
www.homeinspectorstore.com