Code of Ethics

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21

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
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I dont care what you call it r where it is, the content of COE#9 should be abided by NACHI members, unless it runs contrary to a law or regulation in your State, County, Town, etc.


The TREC guidelines are not contract. They are guidelines. I also see nothing barring the use of a contract for those inspectors in Texas.

I dont understand what the issue is. What are we talking about? Information stating what you're doing and what you're charging? The parties invlved in the transaction need to acknowledge (sign) this? What's the big deal?

JOe F

22

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


BTW…


The TREC rules for home inspectors have what's called a departure provision. This is where you inform the client what will be excluded in the inspection. All things NOT excluded, are included. The rules of this provision state that 1)unless the item to be excluded is beyond the control of the inspector, the Client MUST AGREE to the exclusion, and/or 2)the inspector must inform the client of any non-agreed exclusion as soon as possible.

Now, what instrumentality do you think the Texas Real Estate Commission might actually embrace with regard to this informed consent? Might it be some form of Inspection Agreement? Does anyone really believe that TREC would object to the use of such an agreement, so as to properly frame what will and will not be performed during an inspection. It's simple... Something like:

Bill and Ted's Excellent Home Inspections

The purpose and scope of this inspection shall be governed by the rules and regulations as set forth under Texas law, and as set forth by TREC. All provisions of the standards of practice as set forth by TREC shall be followed, except as they apply to the following exclusions:

BLAH...BLAH....BLAH


Therefore, it is agreed to by the parties that an inspection of the subject dwelling, located at BLAH, BLAH, BLAH, and for the client BLAH, BLAH BLAH, shall be performed for a fee of $ BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Acknowledged by BLAH BLAH (client) ans BLAH BLAH (Authorized Representative)


Now, does ANYONE really believe this isn't the ethical thing to do? Even if you have no exclusions? Is this a BIG DEAL? Come on...

23

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
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As a PA licensed REALTOR we have to tell our clients about the different types of agency that exists: buyer agency, seller agency, dual agency, transactional agency, etc.


Since there are no decisions for the client to make we use a notice instead of an agreement. The notices are all the same with no blanks to fill out.

The client is asked to sign it to prove receipt, but not to form an agreement. The client can't disagree with our notice...its a notice.

Couldn't one use a pre-inspection notice instead of an agreement? An agreement implies different terms for different clients. Doesn't a notice imply that we are treating all clients equally?

Nick

24

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Possibly, but I do have the authority to alter my home inspection agreement based on the needs of different Clients. For example, my E&O does not cover swimming pools and spas. But I used to build and tear down and rebuild (gawd, that was fun) swimming pools, spas, tennis courts, and irrigation systems, so I’m quite comfortable inspecting those items even though my E&O doesn’t cover me. So I do take risks when those items are involved. If I treated all my Clients equally, I would (a) never do a swimming pool or (b) automatically include it as part of my regular inspection. I do neither of those. Different clients have differing needs, which typically requires a more complicated contract rather than a simpler notice. Plus, if a Client questions something in my contract, I also have the authority to alter it if I think the question is valid or I simply want to take the risk. A notice, agreed, is not something that a Client could argue with or ask to be changed.

–
Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


25

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hmmmm.

26

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Quote:
Sec. 1102.364. NOTICE TO CONSUMERS
AND SERVICE RECIPIENTS. (a) Each inspector
shall provide notice to consumers and service
recipients of the availability of payment from the
fund for aggrieved persons:
(1) on a written contract for the inspector's
services;
(2) on a brochure that the inspector distributes;
(3) on a sign prominently displayed in the
inspector's place of business;
(4) in a bill or receipt for the inspector's
services; or
(5) in a prominent display on the Internet
website of a person regulated under this chapter.


Again, I realize that this piece is specific to notification, but TREC does mention a contract for services. We've also seen that TREC required notification to and agreement by Client regarding exclusions from the inspection. They are referring to something in writing, otherwise it would open the door for all sorts of "your word versus his word" kind of stuff.

Look, this stuff is fun, and all that, but I'm growing weary. So far, I've okayed two changes to the COE when requested. I did not involve other committe members because the requests were minor, reasonable, and absolutely justified. One was requested by a member, and the other on the advice of NACHI counsel. No discussions, no rhetoric, just common sense. Bingo, the changes went in. Just like that...

But, every time someone doesnt like something which has been crafted and ratified by a committee, we cant just go and change it. There should be legitimate needs surrounding the argument for change.

If folks don't like the way this was handled, fine. Richard Stanley suggests I resign from NACHI. Quite frankly, I was asked to render an opinion, which I did. Ever since, I've been badgered, insulted, and pissed on by a guy who contributed nothing to NACHI other than giving us an application and a check. But, maybe he's right.

So, after 5 days of this, I've had enough... I've never backed away from anything in my life, and I dont want to back away from this. But as Chairman of Ethics Committee, I have to temper what I really want to say. Its hard for me to do this, sometimes. This entire matter left a bad taste. When folks ask me to do something, and it makes sense, I do it. But, my backbone isn't made out of linguine, either. There's a point when meaningful discussion turns to dealing with the hypothetical and all sorts of loopholes are explored, simply for the benefit of the very few, or the one. Prior to this, no one ever took issue with this. To date, no one has complained about it. Yet, we're still discussing it...

As to Nick's recent question, a notification is a one-way transmittal of information. A contract is like a notice with a return receipt. There is a difference. Even when you load software, you must agree to the terms of the licensing agreement. Ths stuff is everywhere in our everyday lives. More than that I cant say.
27

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Well. . . .


I for one would never beat a dead horse. Now a live one, well, that's a different story. I remember in sixth grade I was selected by the class to take our class pets, two rats, home to care for them over the Christmas holiday vacation. I thought that I might teach them a trick or two during those thirty days because I had seen pet tricks on television. So I tried, and I tried. Alas, school started again on January 15. I took the rats to class early thinking that I had one final chance to teach them the tricks. And if they didn't respond, I would use negative reinforcement (punishment). They didn't respond, so I put the two of them in a 5-gallon jar, filled it half full of water, and was rolling it around on the floor when Mrs. Hopkins walked in. Well, I got an extra three days Christmas vacation.

Now as far as the COE goes, I don't like the order that things are listed. The current order is this:

Quote
Duty to the Public
The NACHI Inspector shall abide by the Code of Ethics and substantially follow the NACHI Standards of Practice.
The NACHI inspector will not engage in any practices that could be damaging to the public or bring discredit to the Home Inspection Industry.
The NACHI Inspector shall be fair, honest, impartial, and act in good faith in dealing with the public.
The NACHI Inspector will not discriminate in any business activities on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, familial status, sexual orientation, or handicap and shall comply with all federal, state and local laws concerning discrimination.
The NACHI Inspector shall be truthful regarding his/her services & qualifications.
The NACHI Inspector will have no undisclosed conflict of interest with the client, nor will the NACHI Inspector accept or offer any undisclosed commissions, rebates, profits, or other benefit.
The NACHI Inspector will not communicate any information about an inspection to anyone except the client without the prior written consent of the client, except where it may affect the safety of others or violates a law or statute.
The NACHI Inspector shall always act in the interest of the client, unless doing so violates a law, statute, or this Code of Ethics.
The NACHI Inspector shall use a written contract that specifies the services to be performed, limitations of services, and fees.
The NACHI Inspector shall comply with all government rules and licensing requirements of the jurisdiction where he/she conduct business.
The NACHI Inspector shall not offer to perform repairs on the property that was inspected for a period of 12-months from the time of the initial inspection.

Duty to Continue Education
The NACHI Inspector will comply with NACHI's current Continuing Education Requirements.
The NACHI Inspector shall pass the NACHI's Online Inspector Exam once every calendar year.

Duty to the Profession and NACHI
The NACHI Inspector will strive to improve the Home Inspection Industry by sharing his/her lessons and/or experiences for the benefit of all. This does not preclude the Inspector from copyrighting or marketing his/her expertise to other Inspectors or the public in any manner permitted by law.
The NACHI Inspector shall assist the NACHI leadership in disseminating and publicizing the benefits of NACHI membership.
Unquote

I think it should be this:

Quote
The NACHI Inspector will not discriminate in any business activities on the basis of race, color, religion, sex, national origin, familial status, sexual orientation, or handicap and shall comply with all federal, state and local laws concerning discrimination.
Duty to the Profession and NACHI
The NACHI Inspector will comply with NACHI's current Continuing Education Requirements.
The NACHI inspector will not engage in any practices that could be damaging to the public or bring discredit to the Home Inspection Industry.
The NACHI Inspector shall comply with all government rules and licensing requirements of the jurisdiction where he/she conduct business.
The NACHI Inspector will strive to improve the Home Inspection Industry by sharing his/her lessons and/or experiences for the benefit of all. This does not preclude the Inspector from copyrighting or marketing his/her expertise to other Inspectors or the public in any manner permitted by law.
The NACHI Inspector will have no undisclosed conflict of interest with the client, nor will the NACHI Inspector accept or offer any undisclosed commissions, rebates, profits, or other benefit.
The NACHI Inspector shall not offer to perform repairs on the property that was inspected for a period of 12-months from the time of the initial inspection.
The NACHI Inspector will not communicate any information about an inspection to anyone except the client without the prior written consent of the client, except where it may affect the safety of others or violates a law or statute.
Duty to Continue Education
The NACHI Inspector shall abide by the Code of Ethics and substantially follow the NACHI Standards of Practice.
The NACHI Inspector shall assist the NACHI leadership in disseminating and publicizing the benefits of NACHI membership.
The NACHI Inspector shall be fair, honest, impartial, and act in good faith in dealing with the public.
The NACHI Inspector shall pass the NACHI's Online Inspector Exam once every calendar year.
The NACHI Inspector shall be truthful regarding his/her services & qualifications.
The NACHI Inspector shall use a written contract that specifies the services to be performed, limitations of services, and fees.
Duty to the Public
The NACHI Inspector shall always act in the interest of the client, unless doing so violates a law, statute, or this Code of Ethics.
Unquote

I also think we should add to our COE the following:

All NACHI members acknowledge that The Beatles are the greatest rock group that ever existed, followed in order by The Who, Led Zeppelin, Lynyrd Skynyrd, and The Cars.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Peter Illyich Tchaikovsky was the greatest classical composer who ever lived, followed in order by Beethoven, Bach, and Brahms.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Star Trek and all subsequent renditions of Star Trek are the greatest television shows and theater films ever created and that NACHI members will continue to go where no one has gone before.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Texas A&M University is the greatest university on Earth, yea, in the Universe. Gig 'em, Aggies! Beat the he** outta t.u.!
All NACHI members acknowledge that the Flato Bulldogs are the greatest grade school on Earth, that the Memorial (he**, I don't even remember what we were!) are the greatest junior high school on Earth, and that the King High Brahmas are the greatest high school on Earth.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Alpha Phi Omega is the greatest Service Fraternity on Earth.
All NACHI members acknowledge that the Oakland Raiders are the greatest professional football organization on Earth.
All NACHI members acknowledge that the Oakland A's are the greatest professional baseball organization on Earth.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Larry Bird was the greatest basketball player ever to play the game, followed in order by Pistol Pete Maravich and Danny Ainge.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Andy Roddick is or will become the greatest male tennis player ever to play the game, followed in order by Bjorn Borg, Pete Sampras, Jimmy Connors, and John McEnroe.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Serena and Venus Williams are the greatest female tennis players ever to play the game, followed in order by Martina Navratilova, Martina Hingis, and Steffi Graf.
All NACHI members acknowledge that the Boston Celtics are the greatest professional basketball organization on Earth, followed in order by the Indiana Pacers, Houston Rockets, and San Antonio Spurs.
All NACHI members acknowledge that Capt. Kirk drinks way too many margaritas.

Chris, Nick, where is our sarcasm emoticon?

Kirk out.

Scotty, beam the rest of the margaritas to that King up in Canada.

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

28

Originally Posted By: gbell
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hi Joe


On this issue I agree with you. I do belive that someone has a right to express their opinion in a positive manner. Once they have and the proper authority has made a decision then it is finished. That there should be respect from all parties concerned. This whole thread was put into a negative mood by the person who requested the change. This is a very simple matter. IF YOU DON’T LIKE WHAT IS IN THE COE THEN GET THE HELL OUT!!!



STANLEY I for one don't want you here anyway. As a matter of fact if your membership is not canceled soon then I will resign mine.
With an attitude like his he will not be a successful home inspector. In my opinion the only thing he would be good at is a prison guard or inmate. The only question I have for you STANLEY; is what gives you the right to come on here and express yourself in such a negative manner? I feel that there is no room for someone like you in NACHI. I can't figure if you are a young punk kid who needs a good a$% beating or an old man who has nothing better to do. Which is it????????? If you are ever in my area and want to take this up on a personnel note, I will be more than happy to oblige.
Since this is on the open thread where all can read, I did my best to be nice.

--
Greg Bell
Bell Inspection Service

29

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Russel,


Your sarcasm is duly noted, and I'll be sure and put each and every demand in the new "revised and improved" COE, just as soon as I'm finished with Richard's issue. Now where was that sarcasm emoticon.

To Greg,

Thanks for the support, Bud. But dont waste your breath on Richard. The guy's a tool. He spouts his State's rules, and cant defend his lunacy when asked an honest question. In the end, he may actually be violating his state's own guidelines if he uses a verbal agreement exclusively. Some of the exerpts from the TREC rules convey the need, in certain instances, for a written contract, or disclosure and acknowledgement, which is also an agreement any way you slice it.

The whole issue seemed bizarre in retrospect. I dont believe for a second that this guy was ever sincere. But, you're right. To hell with him. BTW, dont lower yourself to his standards. He's better suited for another org, though I suspect that they wont take his crap either.

As I stated before: Illegitimus Non Carborundum, latin for "Dont let the ba$tards get you down"...



Joe Farsetta

30

Originally Posted By: rking
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe F.


Me thinks you have a latin dictionary somewhere!

I agree with you, to hell with him, as I said in a previous post on this subject; when and if he leaves NACHI there will be five others taking his place!
Keep up the good work.

--
Muskoka Home Inspections
"Wisdom is the Anticipation of the Consequences"
Steering Committee Member At Large

31

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Joe F:


I thought you were quite reasonable on this thread. Much better than you are to our poor guest speakers at the NY NACHI meetings. Good thing Richard wasn't a guest speaker there. He'd have really got the Farsetta treatment. You can be brutal at times but I don't see any of your usual brutality on this thread. Anyway, I'm glad our COE Chairman has spine.

Russel:

Why change the order of the COE? I don't like the non-discrimination one anyway because I can't imagine it occurring. How would an inspector discriminate on any of those basis anyway...refuse to work and get paid from a client because of his wheelchair? You were instrumental in adding "sexual orientation" to it, but make it first now? Seems like just politically correct mumbo jumbo. Help me if you can.


Final sayings of the day:

"The Ethics Committee is no place for linguine spines."
"The closet is a terrible place to die."

Nick

32

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Nick,


You've totally lost it... I think Russel was toying with us...

As to our NYNACHI speakers, I think I'm usually pretty quiet... Let's see:

It was DJ Sunday, as I recall, who was jawing with Lorraine of HICAG. By the way, what ever happened to her/them?

I was quiet and polite when Castleton Engineering was speaking regarding oil tanks.

I know Barry Stangel pretty well, and wouldn't have busted his balls.

Ted Cuttitta is a friend of mine, so I wouldn't have heckled his talk on chimneys.

Larry Ott spoke and no one had a clue what he was saying, as it was pretty noist. I took his course anyway...

I brought the mold expert from Cornell to the meeting, so I wouldn't have attacked hin, especially as he delivered the kind of information regarding mold and mold testing I happen to agree with (as do many of our other NY Chapter members.

So, Nick, me thinks you may have me confused with someone else.. No wait, I DID bust John C's balls pretty good regarding legislation once. He brought Lorraine the following month, and I passed the batton to DJ, who did a splended job.

In all, I've been pretty tame lately. Even with Nations Hazard, who I hope will come back to this board and prove us all wrong. Wait... did I really just say that?

Buiolding Specs, well... that was unfortunate. BOOM !!! Poor Gerry is still trying to pick up those pieces, I'm afraid, with a spoon!

But, to anyone who really sees the need to change something in the COE that's reasonable, justifyable, isn't harmful, and which makes sense cause its the right thing to do, please send me an e-mail. Two such changes were made to the COE in recents months. No hoopla. These changes did not alter the flavor of the document. They were subtle but needed, and effective changes, designed to help NACHI members achieve their goals.

See, I CAN be reasonable, I just dont like to, at times! (Just kidding)


Joe (Linguine can actually be used to beat someone to death) Farsetta

33

Originally Posted By: jfarsetta
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Nick,


As to the non-discrimination clause, you assume that the Inspector will only discriminate against a Client. In those instances, this clause doesn't apply.

However, some of our inspectors are also employers. This is where this particular clause kicks in, in a real-world scenario. It's standard EEOC stuff.



Joe F

34

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


See, this is why Joe deserves to be COE Chairman. I’ll stay out of your way Joe. You’re doing a great job.


Nick

PS I'm not afraid of linguine unless Joe Farsetta is coming at me with it... then I'm running for my life! I believe Joe could beat someone to death with linguine. I'm getting hungry all of a sudden...

35

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Nick, did you read my whole post? I know it was long, and not in the Inspirational thread, so maybe you didn’t.


Anyway, if you're going to take my sarcasm (where's our sarcasm emoticon?) seriously, then I will agree to have the discrimination statement moved to the very bottom. I was just cutting and pasting away. I'm sorry that one got cut and pasted to the very top. I might have even cut and not pasted something. I don't know. I didn't even read my whole post, I don't think. But I did have a few margaritas.

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

36

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Russel, did you read my whole post? I threw that “closet” line in just for you.


Nick

PS. We really need that sarcasm emoticon.

37

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


It’s been so long since I’ve been in the closet, maybe I don’t know what “closet” is anymore. I’m not finding that line, Nick.

–
Home inspections. . . .


One home at a time.


38

Originally Posted By: Nick Gromicko
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Russel:


My Sept. 10th 9:36 PM post on this thread above.

I would think one never gets out but always has to be coming out over and over. I mean you had to come out on this board. No?

Anyway, I just threw the closet line in that post to see if you read my posts or just scan them quickly.

Way off topic Nick

39

Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Hmmm. Interesting. When I click on this thread, I do not have a post from you for Sept. 10th 9:36 PM, only 9:02 PM. I have reset my Internet cookies and history and a 9:36 PM post still never shows up. What’s going on? Now I don’t have confidence that I always get to read everything that’s posted. I do read all the posts, even a certain person’s in the Inspirational thread. I have a very open mind that likes to be challenged; I play chess.


Coming out, as with life, is definitely an ongoing process. I'm one of the leaders. I have been so much happier these past ten years that I shall never go back into a closet. I send my significant other into our walk-in closet to get my clothes for the day! ![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)

--
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.

40

Originally Posted By: ecrofutt
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


agree with them, but I don’t even know what changes were made.


Since when did it become a one man show?

--
Erby Crofutt
B4U Close Home Inspections
Georgetown, Kentucky
www.b4uclose.com