Concrete slab, build on less than 48 hours of pour

Please understand I am agreeing with some of what you have to say.
I have questions and would be as pissed as you BUT.
I am not you and did rush to judgment.
So I did not here you mention to me about the Rebar being missed, and I would have had the client express his or her concerns to the contractor.
He would Sign this ( a contract with her ) or I will hire some one else and go else ware.
The paperwork would have explained that very instance ( you are to be there no matter what.)
He also would have a camera and if you where not there ( he would shot pictures of every area being built ( you would know what he should take pictures of as a phase consultant) or the contract would be legally broken.
We have a short building time in Montreal and the degree Dacarie road way was repair in ( average - 30 ) in the winter.No heaters on the retaining walls. Plywood.
Montreal’s the LEADING CEMENT PRODUCERS in north America.
I have worked with accelerator and stopped my cement work when it reached minus 10 Celsius or 12 Fahrenheit.
I have built in minus 25 but used salamanders and the cost of propane is costly and I end up making little.
No more.
That being said.
You catch more flies with honey and you should talk to the contractor and ease your way in and be on the sight every morning during that phase. I would call every morning also and talk to him at the shop if you have free time.
Thats me and I am that kind of a guy.
I do wish you the best of luck. I meant no disrespect.
We all work differently.

Robert,

No disrespect taken… I am simply pointing out that concrete must be properly prepared in all types of weather, not just cold…this particular builder did not do that.

And as I stated earlier, I and my client asked to have a conference with him prior to building…that did not happen and now he is relegated to proving his actions whenever I see something that is questionable. Since the foundation has been poured he has contacted me and I did explain to him that he and I are booth looking out for our clients interest however mine is fiduciary…his is not…and as a result of the greater responsibility I have for less money, I will be very thorough.

As I also said earlier, I am a builder with over 30 years of experience… I have formed up and poured basements, framed more homes then I can remember and install all types of veneers, flooring, etc…I know what is and should be standard of practice and that which is simply crap work done by subcontractors who are kissing track builders arse for little to no money simply to stay alive.

Thanks Jef,
I would not want to be in your shoes.
Honestly.
Good luck mate.
You got it mate.
Some Subs are wholes that ask for little and do little.
Thats why this contractor has to be set straight, and now is the time before any more building is done.
If the poor is bad you have to see what he will do.
The client is in a bad way having money already invested and time is of the essence.

I finally got the concrete tickets…
3000 PSI with fiber (good)
hot water used for mix (good)
nonchloride accelerant (good)
concrete temp, 67 deg (good)
delivery and pour time less than 45 minutes (good)

no air entrainment (preferred)
no rebar (will determine if foundation actually calls for same)
slab not covered / insulated (not good)

I will meet with the homeowner tomorrow to discuss my findings at which time she will make her decision as to weather or not she will go forward with the purchase.

I will also do a brief preliminary look at the framing… should be an interesting day.

“Cold weather,” according to the American Concrete Institute (ACI), constitutes a period of more than three consecutive days when: a) the average daily temperature is less than 40˚ F (4˚ C); and b) the air temperature is not greater than 50˚ F (10˚ C) for more than one-half of any 24-hour period. Under ACI’s definition, “cold weather” conditions typically exist from three to six months for a vast majority of the northern two-thirds of the United States and Canada. Contractors avoiding cold weather concreting significantly limit their profit potential.

You can use a windsor probe at regular intervals across the slab to provide a relatively quick and “cheap” general assessment of the slab. then, as necessary to obtain “real” data with the probe, you take cores at the high, low, mid result locations for testing and to get a good look at what the concrete looks like (as well as correlating the probe results). also spot some cores “randomly”. the windsor probe wouldn’t necessarily tell how the slab will perform long term but could provide indication as to the extent of damage (at the surface).

Poor finishing techniques possibly have damaged the slabs. Freshly poured concrete often bleeds. The water in the mix floats to the top, as it is the lightest ingredient. Floating or troweling this water into the concrete weakens the top layer. Troweling the concrete too early can seal this bleed water just below the surface as well. If your slab was then exposed to freezing temperatures several days later, this water could have frozen and fractured the top layer.
Concrete can be successfully poured in cold weather. Several precautions need to be taken.

Good luck. :slight_smile:

Thanks Marcel… I actually already have docs from ACI on my computer along with some additional resources.

I finished the foundation report and sent it to the client…due to the foundation plan not being adhered to (missing load point footing pads, etc) along with the foundation not properly being protected from the cold my recommendation was to have the builder provide additional evaluation by a licensed engineer; I also recommend that all areas where ceramic tile be installed a new substrate such as Schluter Ditra be installed to ensure that any cracks in the concrete is not translated to the tile / grout.

Aside from those recommendations I was also correct in that the framer used common nails in all pressured treated material including the anchor straps…over 1000 nails will have to be removed.

Additionally all the trusses were improperly fastened are all interior walls…no STC, DTC or STCT clips were utilized as required by the manufacturer. Several of the bottom chords have already split where the framer fastened them to the top plate.

My client has forwarded them my report and is desiring for us all to meet prior to going forward…failing them to correct what I have already discovered will result in her walking away from the home.

Jeff.
You did not see the footers, you did not have the plains for the foundastion?
I am also surprised by how much work has gone into the home after just 5 days.
Were you there to inspect the framing also.
Its a good thing you where there .
Look, I thought you were aware of the foundation before the pour and did not mean to be so judge mental.
I though you inspected the framing of and footer pads , footings for bar , etc and just to observe the pour.
It was an oversight on my part I WILL REMEMBER WELL!!!.
So that being said.
1: If these guys are so rough than why did she hire them ( the contractor ) in the first place.( recommend ).
2: she has money laid into this mess already. This guy can take a dive and come-up in 2 months where I live doing it all over again in another area.
Any way, like I said, would not want to be in your shoes.
Good luck.
You certainly have built and learned to put your best foot forward mate.

I advised the builder to give me a couple day notice as to when they are going to pour…as a builder I know they should have what is called flow schedule…there should not have been a problem with them calling me in advance instead I get a call about 15 minutes or so before the trucks are scheduled to arrive…fortunately that morning I only had slated the day for paper work.

When I did arrive no plans were available and the site supervisor took pictures that he said he would send me. (you can imagine how hot my client was about that).

The contractor is a track builder…she likes the location and the price of the homes.

She hired me because of her lack of confidence in the local inspection department, she wanted someone who had extensive knowledge within the construction industry and the acceptable practice of same including knowing codes as well as manufacturer requirements. She does pay good and had a check waiting for me before I arrive at the job site.

I did a brief walk through of the home while they were still doing the plumbing and electric… there are certain areas I know where framers fail…especially track builders…I simply noted several of those areas aside from the foundation inspection. I advised her not to allow the builder to proceed past a set stage (installing insulation) without addressing the deficient areas.

We will probably have a meeting this weekend with the builder, site supervisor, salesman, and framer. The meeting will go one of two ways…either they will acknowledge the mistakes and correct them or they will say the building inspector passed everything for which my client will ask for her escrow money back and walk…failing to return her money will land them in court and of course allow me to still make more money by testifying in same. Knowing that one dissatisfied customer can do more harm than 50 happy ones, the builder would be foolish not to address the issues…she are not asking for over and above code…simply that its builder according the blueprints, code and manufacturers instructions.

Yes of course Jeffery. She expects what she is paying for and nothing else.
You noted some big violations in my eyes.
1: cords being broken and common nails being used.
2: Additionally all the trusses were improperly fastened are all interior walls…no STC, DTC or STCT clips were utilized as required by the manufacturer. Several of the bottom chords have already split where the framer fastened them to the top plate.
So Jeffery is there no code or building inspector on site?
I know why you are there, but is this common practice in the state that you live in to build in such a manner?.
I am asking because I have seen my fare share of oversight and I am not as technically trained as you, and in my building days we work from the pouring of the slab to almost completion.
I would leave after the electricians and plumbers where gone and the drywall tapers can in.
I would oversee the job and work in conjunction with every building trade.
We worked off of drawings to the letter, inspectors would be on site at every phase.
As for the stick building code and technical training. It was all in the field.
Not much being taught about the proper technical referencing ( materials, code and relations ship to materials interaction ) and technical word and phrases unless you asked and if there was time for talk.( lunch and breaks and after work )
That was back in the late 1980.
I have been doing repair ever sense then.
You are well versed in what you are doing, ( phase inspections ) and I complement you on your composer,insight ,and interactions with all the parties involved.
(**I HAVE TAKEN NOTE **)
Again I say that I have been robbed of an education in Quebec , firstly because of my language, secondly because the builders union in Quebec ( back then, AND do not know about now ) was new.
I joined after it was conceived and enjoyed the parity committee because it was structured to let you advance with without the need for hours counted and the forman and journeymen would educate you faster.
I thank you for taking the time to talk to me instead of avoiding my awkward manner sometimes.
I have truly enjoyed your attitude and patients and will be upgrading my education before I set out to do any full phase inspections.
Thanks Jeffery.
If you only knew how reaching out can touch someone that wants to learn .
I think you know.

You guys will love this…the builder is now requiring that I give at least 2 week written notice prior to performing an inspection…furthermore that “the buyer and Inspector agree that the construction standards set forth in the Seller’s warranty documents shall be the standard to which the Seller shall be held accountable as to the construction of the home”

What a bunch of crap… I suppose they didn’t like my report detailing the number of deficiencies I had already found and now are trying to find ways to keep
my client from having the home inspected.

That’s a no brainer.
Send him requests every day in writing.
Explain to him you will be on the site whenever you wish.
Tell him you are covered by insurance due to accidents ( he will pull that on next ).
Go talk to him in person and explain. I am here for the same reason you are here. Providing the client with 100 percent satisfaction in the work ( YOU GUARANTEE. )
I AM HERE TO AID YOU AS A SET OF EYES TO MAKE SURE EVERYTHING IS DONE ACCORDING TO CONTRACT.

I truly wish you the best and hope you and your client can come out the winners here.
You catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
Good luck.

I’m in Kansas City and most of our better quality builders wait at least 48 hours after pouring until they start building.

Backfilling is usually done as soon as the walls are in SO the contractors don’t have to balance and walk across the 2x8’s, etc.

I can’t remember seeing straw, blankets, etc on cold weather pours.

Last winter I was doing a construction monitoring on a house. The hole was dug BUT standing water and ice and snow. NOTHING else done but the hole. It had been below 15 degrees and snowing all week. I went out of town for 6 days.

When I got back, the basement was poured; the house was framed; and they were marching right on ahead. It was still below freezing.

AMAZING …

Many in Montreal Cover the hole for freezing and water. It changes the substreght signifacantly. Frost and water.
Movement in the footings after the building is erected.
If I remember I will show you example of this building I live in and mistakes in the footers and covering it for the winter months. ( 2 large sections.) It was a large project.
When its below x they use hay bails to insulate the area. I saw a load going to a job site yesterday driving mother around. They were 100 pound bails.
I moved those 70 bails on a farm when younger.

Winter concreting should be common sense for people in the bussiness.

You have to protect the ground from freezing.
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Make sure you have the proper equipment for the job.
DSCN2251.JPG

Form and pour your footing.
DSCN2259-1.JPG

Cover using electric blankets in real cold temperatures.
DSCN2261-1.JPG

Cover the electric blankets with regular insulated blankets, wait 24 hours if possible and continue.
In the case of these pictures, temperature of 65 degrees at the concrete was maintained, so 12 hours later, work resumed.
Once the concrete has attained 500 psi, it will not freeze, but hydration will stop until temperatures climb above freezing.
A mid range water reducer should be used to increase strength and high early set.

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Hope this helps. :slight_smile:

I just got word that the builder reviewed my report and has conceded to address all the issues I put on the report, in addition they are willing to meet with us to discuss a better working relationship while the project is ongoing…(which is what I wanted from the very beginning, too bad they felt it wasn’t necessary to meet with me to go over some of the issues that I would be looking at closely)… they obviously have seen that by blowing me off on that meeting has now bit them in the butt and if they want to sell the house to my client it would be in their best interest to sit down and talk to us.

Good for you. I was hoping it would be resolved successfully.
Your manner plus calm professionalism is what brought you success.
You know how contractors and construction tradesmen are in gereral. A very testy lot to say the least.
That is great. I hope you have the opportunity to work with him more often. Mention to him, that you will work with him to oversee sites.
Its good PR for him as well Mr.Haynes.