Determining square footage....

Originally Posted By: bsmith
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



This may seem like a stupid question. How is the square footage of a house determined? Is it by the footprint (ex: a 40’ x 30’ house would = 1,200) or are the floors added (the same house with a second floor would be 2,400 sq. ft.). Are basements included? Thanks in advance.



Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

Originally Posted By: chorne
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hi bill,


for the purtpses of RE appraisal, etc. I believe the square footage
is determined by the square footage of living space and basement
is not included.

Carla


Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Since I chareg based upon SF, this question is important to me.


I get the most recent tax appraisal (public records and avalable on line around here) as well as public RE appraisal records.

I usually find that the SF is based upon 'livable area', which would exclude an unfinished basement. I also compare the tax appraisal records for number of bedrooms, bathrooms, etc to what is actualy in place and adjust when I see the property.

Most times, I find an extra bathroom or a finished basement, where the tax records don't reflect them. In this case it usually tells me that:

a) there has been som work done since the last tax appraisal. This tips me off to the fact that someone proably did addition work without filing for any permit. In this case, check the new work VERY well.

b) Finished basements, I include in livable SF and add to the base SF figure.

c) Finished attics are also very common, and added.

Hope this helps.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: bsmith
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Excellent posts. Thank you both. I can always rely on Nachi members!



Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bill,


I hope the check is in the mail. Otherwise, I know where you park your car.

![icon_wink.gif](upload://ssT9V5t45yjlgXqiFRXL04eXtqw.gif)


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: bsmith
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



oooops - I made a mistake Will - the car is in the mail and the check is parked in the driveway!!



Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

Originally Posted By: jsmith10
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



I believe that it’s the conditioned living space that is heated and has sufficient egress i.e. basements windows/wells. I just did an inspection the other day that had a finished basement but the wells did not sufficient size windows or well space for egress so the appraiser did not call out living space square footage.


It’s best to ask your local (city, county) developmental office and appraisers office as they are the ones who approve and inspect these area’s.



Joe,


Vice-President, Idaho Chapter,


www.NachiIdaho.org


Inspected as though my family are to live or work there.

http://www.Treasurevalleyinspections.com

Originally Posted By: kbowles
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Depends on who you ask. Ask a painter and he is damn sure going to say it’s every square foot and he doesn’t care if it’s heated or not. The actual square footage of a home is measured by heated square footage according to tax records. Measured OUTSIDE measurements, NOT room by room. The other measurement is referred to as “under roof” and would include ALL space under roof, heated or not.


Hope this helps.


Kevin B


--
Life's a journey, not a destination.
Aerosmith

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Bill,


While the realtors use guidelines when determining sq footage, you will find that many don't follow it and it is rather haphazard at best if you are going to rely on the information that is provided by them.

I have found that some, don't include bathrooms and closets (they are not supposed to) Some don't include rooms with slanted walls (an example would be attic space converted into living space. Others don't include basements, some do. What is supposed to be included in the square footage it actual living space...not utility rooms and unfinished basements, garages....etc.


--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

Originally Posted By: bsmith
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Would a covered porch be considered living space?



Bill Smith


www.SmithHomeInspection.com


“The difference between stupidity and genius is that genius has its limits.” A. Einstien

Originally Posted By: kbowles
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



No, only heated square footage is considered in the actual listed square footage of a home.


Kevin


--
Life's a journey, not a destination.
Aerosmith

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Hey, it don’t matter if its heated or not, or has slanted ceiling or any thing like that. If I have to inspect it, it’s square footage.



Will Decker


Decker Home Services


Skokie, IL 60076


wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: hgordon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Well said Will.


One thing is to know the "living area"...the other is to inspect "total area" and only get paid for "living area"!

At the meeting this weekend I exhorted al 196 Inspectors to give themselves a raise and to start charging for "total" not "living"...after all, the RE's want commission for the "total" and they want the "total" inspected.

I use this when the RE says, "That price is based on "living/under air, right?"...
OH I am sorry, no that was based on TOTAL...if you dont want the Garage and the items in the garage like the Water Heater, Main Load Center and Attic (since its access in from the garage), Balconey and Pool inspected the new price would be... At this point I say a figure that is like 50.00 or so less and wait for their response!

I agree with what has been said...if they want me to inspect it...I want to get paid for inspecting it...or as another inspector said, "If they want to be able to sue me for it, i want paid for it."


--
Harvey Gordon
SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President
hgordon@fl.nachi.org

Originally Posted By: mlong
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



wdecker wrote:
Hey, it don't matter if its heated or not, or has slanted ceiling or any thing like that. If I have to inspect it, it's square footage.


I'm with you Will. It seems to me, that whether a basement is finished or not, heated or not, used or not, it still takes about the same amount of time to inspect. In fact, I probably spend more time in a basement per square foot than other parts of the living space. A basement, more often than not, is where you'll see moisture problems, its where you'll see many structural problems, its often where some if not all of the utilities are located, it's the "foundation" of the home.

Now, having said that, let's say hypothetically, that one's average price for a 4,000 sq. foot house, that is not over 10 years old, is $400. What would you charge, Will, for inspecting a single story home that has 4500 sq. ft. on that single, livable story, and then another 4500 sq. ft. of unfinished basement?

Actually, this is not really hypothetical for me. I'm inspecting a house like this a little later today. I ended up charging $475 for the inspection, which is low I realize, but I did it for several reasons. One, this referral was coming through a local prominent realtor, that had never referred me to anyone before, and she was using an old business card of mine that I had stopped printing almost a year and a half ago. (Can't believe she kept it all this time.) Two, after I started to explain my pricing scheme, and how it was based on square footage, age, etc, she mildly started to debate with me, the idea of including the basement in the square footage equation. And three, the house is only two years old and a very short distance from me, so what it boiled down to was, I caved. Any way, I'm hoping to get some other referrals from this lady.

But, back to my question, Will, and for anyone else, what might you charge for an inspection for a home like this?


--
Mark Long
Peace of Mind Home Inspections
http://www.pomhi.net

Originally Posted By: wdecker
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



My fee schedule (see here: http://www.deckerhomeservices.com/fee_schedule.htm


shows that I would charge in excess of $650.00.

That being said, I agree that there are other factors included.

Our job (at least in Illinois) is:

1) Making sure that the property is safe (regardles of what 'code' says).
2) Making sure tha thet house retains its value (that usually small 'Repair or replace items are taken care of BEFORE they become big items)
3) Making sure that liability STAYS where it belongs.
4) making sure that we make a living so that we can continue to do the above, as mandated by the state (in Illinois).

Point 1 is self explainitory. Safety is unalterably linked to liability. If I call something out (like making sure that the cable that powers a disposer under a sink is waterproof and that the disposer is GFCI protected and that the under sink outlet is in a waterproof box) is either done in the way that I see being safe OR that it be evaluated by a licensed and insured electrical contractors so that if he (or she) DOCUMENTS that it is OK (usually falling back on a minimum standard of code) that they assume any futre liability. Yes, I know, this can lead to extreme call outs, but I also strive to be sensible.

2) House value is key to the investment part of Real Estate and ALL Real Estate is an investment. We (try to) make sure that the house remians valuable. This means that repairs and additions are done professionaly and as close to best technique as possible. This is the other leg uon which we prove our own value. Sometimes (most times?) even the home owner will try to cut corners. Short term gain almost always leads to long term grief. That 'deal' that the guy got on a 'special' $600, 4 squares roof job (over the old shingles and with no flashing work) really isn't so special. Out job is to educate the owner that they are assuming all the liability for thermselves when the hire non licensed and non insured contractors.

3) No one likes to take responsibiliy these days. Everyone looks for someone else to blame. If I hire the above roofer (and I use the term loosely), I, De Facto, am assuming any liability for the piss poor job he does. I am saying that if the roof starts leaking 4 months later (as did happen in my example), that I and I alone will accept the blame and financial costs of my decision.

Most people don't like that idea. They want a free lunch.

I had a friend who wanted a partial tear down and build up on his house. He said 'I can't afford a contractor', so he became his own GC. He didn't know how to hire subs and didn't bother to check and verify the licenses (mostly none) and insurance of the subs. As such, he had almost constant problems. One point: He allowed the drywalling sub to talk him into green board istead of cement board. The sun siad it would be cheaper (turns out the drywall giy didn't even know that cement board existed). My friend then installed marble on the green board. 7 months later, the mable was coming off (in a shower stall). Organic mastic (on green board) doesn't hold mable like thinset on cement board. I had counciled him that the cement board / thinset method was best practice, but he put me off because it was too expensive.

Bottom line, in the final analysis, his way was WAY more expensive.

If you can't afford to do it right a) don't do it OR b) accept that it will be a crap job and that you will have to have it redone and take care of other damage as well (rot, water damage).

4) The more we charge, the more time we will have to do a good job. I am perfectly willing to spend 4 hours inspecting your described house AND another 4 hours doing the report (my reports are long and detailed) if I am making $650.00 onm the job than if I was making $400.00. Just plain himan nature, MY human nature.

Also, here is a question.

What is easier to inspect (time, money, actually finding defects or ruling them out)? A completely unfinished 4,000 SF basement or a completel;y finished 4,000 SF basement?

I would say the former. You can see all the foundation, all the floor joists and their ends, all the sill plate, all the plumbing, drains, vents and gas lines.

In a completely finished basement, you can see none of the above and have to guess (dangerous) or speculate based upon what you can see. Therefore, you must disclaim more in your report as not inspected becasue it couldn't be seen. This means more liability for you because your client ain't going to like not knowing and what is bad and NOT called out can really come back to bite you.

But on the other hand, most buyer and Realtors simply LOVE finished basements. Better curb appeal, don't you know.


--
Will Decker
Decker Home Services
Skokie, IL 60076
wjd@DeckerHomeServices.com

Originally Posted By: hgordon
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



4,000 SQ FT = 625.00


4,000 SQ FT Basement = 200.00



Harvey Gordon


SE Florida NACHI Chapter - President


hgordon@fl.nachi.org


Originally Posted By: mlong
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.



Thanks, Will and Harvey, for the replies on your fees. Much appreciated!


I think I’m going to have to raise my fees! icon_smile.gif


I have shopped my local competition, however, and I seem to be fairly in line with everyone else. Of course, I'm not everyone else, and it doesn't mean that I can't gradually try to get a little more.


--
Mark Long
Peace of Mind Home Inspections
http://www.pomhi.net