Do you put polybutylene in the Summary?

Here is a link to another PB thread I started. Check out the pic. When I opened the water heater closet in the Manuf. home,… the PB supply line had a small leak at a connection that had gone unnoticed for some time… now I can say (and believe) PB has potential issues first hand. Nice mold growth on the wall too.
http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=8838

061012-01%20069.JPG

I modified my text slightly since www.polybutylene.com is a commercial website. The Realtor’s complaint about that as a reference has some validity.

“The water supply pipes are Polybutylene plastic (PB). This system of plumbing has experienced a higher than normal rate of problems associated with leaks where the pipes are joined together. There is also a current theory that chemicals in municipal water systems react with the piping and resins in the fittings, weakening the pipes and joints. Heat may also cause the pipes to deteriorate and burst. The manufacturers have settled a class action lawsuit alleging manufacturing defects with this plumbing system containing plastic or metal insert fittings (including copper and brass). For more information about PB, see http://www.pbpipe.com and other Internet resources. We recommend that you do your own research on this type of plumbing system and rely on the evaluation and advice of a licensed plumbing contractor prior to the close of escrow.”

Also, the buyer has hired me to do another one for her next week. :smiley:

It is called CYA.
If you do not you had better have a damd good contract and/or bags of money.
Refer it to a plumber familiar with this stuff.
T.Neyedli
www.alphahomeinspections.ca

Is PEX different from polybutylene?

PEX is Polyethelene (Cross Linked) much different.

Right and PEX is sometimes gray, so one needs to learn how to spot the difference.
http://www.pexconnection.com/PEX%20CONNECTION%20CATALOG%202004.pdf

Page 9 of that pdf shows some gray PB 2110 being spliced with PEX.

I don’t see any gray pex in this catalog and have not seen any in houses.
The clear/milky PEX might look gray in some light conditions with some cameras. Anyone have a picture of gray PEX?

There is silver pex in this catalog Bruce, it has Aluminum added to it.
http://www.pexheat.com/catalog/download/ph_viega_cat2007.pdf?osCsid=2e2ba8f3e13c6baa064a362ffab95500

Question from a newbie.

i understand where you live forces you to put the information about polybutylene in your summary. Would you normally put so much info about something that could at sometime be a possible problem, in your reports? i was once told if its not broken why would you suggest fixing it, were not here to make an old house new…

Ditto…

No summery in my reports. Why give the Realtor a tool to
water down the rest of the report?

Yes… I include comments about PB pipes. The Client deserves to know.
End of story.

If the plumbing leaks all over the house, you can at least say
I told you so…

Gray PEX; brand name Merflex

Replacing PB piping can be a significant expense and the client should understand the possible consequences of buying a home with it present.

Your argument about not fixing what ain’t broke doesn’t hold up in this business. Do you wait until the roof leaks to have it evaluated and replaced? Do you wait until the kid walks through the untempered glass before replacing the door? Do you want to replace the balusters 3 feet apart before someone falls through or wait to see if it’s really a problem? Etc., etc.

I am not trying to make an old house new. I’m reporting the condition of the home and the potential financial impact of buying a home with problematic components. If you don’t think that’s important, you should speak with your attorney.

Joe,
This is dang close to the comment I use…and the pbpipe.com website. I do add that pb pipe is commonly used in the area, was and is accepted practice, but has a higher than average failure rate. Then I refer them to the site. Just softens the language a little bit. But I make sure to call it, even when just pb risers are used!

This proves you’ve done the right thing. Good job! :smiley:

Polybutylene piping present in the home has been the subject of a national class action lawsuit involving certain polybutylene plumbing systems and polybutylene yard service lines installed between January 1, 1978 through July 31, 1995.

While scientific evidence is scarce, it is believed that oxidants in the public water supplies, such as chlorine, react with the polybutylene piping and acetal fittings causing them to scale and flake and become brittle. Micro-fractures result, and the basic structural integrity of the system is reduced. The system may become weak and fail without warning causing damage to the building structure and personal property. It is virtually impossible to detect installation problems throughout an entire system.

Throughout the 1980’s lawsuits were filed complaining of allegedly defective manufacturing and defective installation causing hundreds of millions of dollars in damages. Although the manufacturers have never admitted that poly is defective, they agreed to fund the Class Action settlement with an initial and minimum amount of $950 million. You’ll have to contact the appropriate settlement claim company to find out if you qualify under this settlement.
To find out more about this settlement visit http://www.pbpipe.com/faq_gnrl.htm#G11

hey good work on the finding and the responsability, of the home inspector. you did your job of as a home inspector, if she wants to bicker about it and she lost a clint because of it , well i think you saved a family of trouble heart ache and future problems. Now what you should do is to report her to the Board of Realtor on her actions against you. if this is how she works and doesnt care about her clients welfare, she shouldnt be selling homes. write aleeter explaining the facts about the plumbing the lawsuit detailed info and watch what the Board will do with her . with my business i follow the rules of NACHI, ICC the Board of Reators and my self. I HOPE YOU TAKE ACTION AGAINST HER. YOU DID YOUR DUTY. GOOD LUCK GREAT JOB…

I do not want to sound negative but the odds of the local Board of Realtors doing anything to her, expect a slap on the hand is pretty slim. You will get more results with the state regulating board. She might even get a little bruise on her hand. But keep in mind if you rely on real estate salesman referrals, they will probably drop for awhile if you report her when the word gets around.

Dear Joe:
You said it all. In plain english which most sane people can hear, your report identified areas of concern. We, as a whole, only detect-discuss-direct our findings without fear or favour.
I personally add also that I neither debase nor glorify my findings but reported to the client for a fuller understanding of that system or component so inspected. If need be include best/worst case scenarios. Let them decide.
T.Neyedli
www.alphahomeinspections.ca

I’ve inspected approximately 30+ homes in NC with PB in the crawlspace. I check all the “visible” pipe and fittings. I’ve never seen a PB pipe or fitting that was leaking. There’s always a first! I inform the client in the report about potential PB/fitting issues.