Draft RESNET Standard now open for public comment

I take the liberty of reproducing this email from Steve Baden, Executive Director of RESNET, with regard to the new draft infrared standard I was fortunate to help write; I encourage all to read this and, as appropriate, make comments so that it can become an even better standard. I know many NACHI members who read this board will have experiences that can be incorporated, even given the difference in “mission” between RESNET and a more traditional home inspection:

"The thermal imaging technology has advanced significantly in the past few years and the price of equipment has grown more affordable. The technology offers the promise of a way to measure the EPA ENERGY STAR Homes Thermal Bypass Checklist and the quality of the installation of the insulation after the dry wall has been installed. To pave the way to achieving this potential, RESNET recruited an Infrared Scanning Task Force to draft a standard.

The committee drafted an IR standard based on the experience of its members and the United Kingdom’s standard for using the technology in measuring the quality of insulation installation. The draft standard was reviewed and approved by the RESNET Technical Committee. After the Technical Committee completed its review, the task force made a number of organizational changes to the proposed amendment. These changes are:

• The IR Standard is now labeled CHAPER 8 Performance Testing Standards. Section 801 is Pressure Diagnostics (Blower Door and Duct Testing), Section 802 is Thermographic Inspections of Buildings (formerly IR Standard) and Section 803 is Combustion Safety Testing. Section 801 and Section 803 are not written yet but have place holders in this Chapter for later adoption.
• The language for certification requirements was changed to be more concise in Section 802 for both Methods 1 and 2.
• The training time in Section 802 was changed from 3 days-36 hours to 3 days-24 hours. (802, Method 2, #2)
• Provisions for inspecting Grade I insulation deleted since this type of thermographic inspect tion will not allow for evaluation of Grade I insulation. (805.2, Grade I)
• Measuring of “insulation anomalies” changed from “square foot” to “square inch”. (805.3)
• Inclusion of “framing fraction” as part of the “thermal bridging” inspection. (805.4, #2)
• Other changes involve minor word edits to better define statement meanings.

Public comments on all of the proposals will be accepted until July 16 13, 2009.

At the completion of the comment period, the Infrared Scanning Task Force will review comments and revise the amendment where appropriate. The amendment will then be submitted to the Amendment Revision Committee, composed of three representatives of the rating industry and three representatives of state energy offices. The RESNET Board will then consider the recommendations of the revision committee and vote on whether to adopt the amendments.

To view the proposed amendments and submit comments go to <http://www.resnet.us/standards/mortgage/amendments/2009/performance_testing/default.htm>

Steve Baden
Executive Director

Thermally yours,
John Snell
Snell Infrared



You and your buddy are clearly stepping all over HomeSafe’s patent, and infringing on their rights accordingly.

Therefore, I am calling for you to immediately cease and desist with this charade, and use of this message board to further your agenda.

You are encouraging every member of this organization to step directly into the sights of HomeSafe’s attorneys.

Unless and until InfraRed education providers can prove otherwise, and beyond rhetorical references, it is my belief that all communications relative to InfraRed standards and techniques be blocked at the door.

It is also my opinion that the manufacturers of this equipment also have a duty to warn their clients of the HomeSafe patent issue, and encourage them to respect the patent, until such time that it is revoked or modified.

My word is final. I command you from the top of Mt. Olympus…:wink:

Seriously, though… Maybe the time has come for inspectors to stop buying these products and taking your training, and looking at your standards.

There is apparently a standing US Patent where someone legally occupies the field. Currently, every student who takes your course is a potential target. Will you indemnify them? If not, you should legitimately cease and desist. Step up and be pro-active to halt the madness. The fact that you sit idly while others become the target isnt right.

I talked with some very high level people in the IR camera industry and their educational providers on this subject. They treat this subject like it is a non-issue. Other than a few novices, I have never talked to anyone in the IR industry who takes these claims seriously.

Also see some examples below as to why…

There are many non defendable patents out there, but that is a far cry from them being called “LAW”. By the example listed above, are we suppose to pay every bogus patent claim for the rights to surf and do business on the internet?

So far, using an IR camera to scan a building is not illegal and no laws are pending to change that. There is no proof IMHO that these patent claims mean anything to the thousands of IR users and camera manufactures.

Can I now patent the rights to use a hammer and nail?

If your website ask people to pay online with a credit card, you are asking them to violate a standing patent. This can really get funny after a while.

Perhaps some leaders in the IR industry should take homesafe to task, file the necessary paperwork to get this patent thrown out.

I don’t think anyone here thinks the patent will stand up to review, but no one has taken that step to squash the patent.

And as it stands, now they do indeed hold apatent.

They can file suits against inspectors at will and it is on the inspector to prove they do not infringe on their patent.

Do you know if any of those actions have been implimented in the six years since that was written?

If they actually pursued this with Resnet that is exactly what would happen, and I am sure HomeSafe knows that.

This upcoming Resnet IR standard is a big deal for anyone in the IR business. Just as a side effect, it should finally put a muzzle on HomeSafe.

Jason Kaylor – JJ
VP of Specialty Products
AC Tool Supply](http://www.aikencolon.com/)
Fluke Thermal Cameras
Testo Infrared Cameras
[FONT=Arial]HotShot Hi-Rez Infrared Cameras](http://blogs.ebay.com/jjkillian225/home/_W0QQentrysyncidZ1058804014)[/FONT]
Fluke TiR1 Resources](http://www.fluketir1.com/)
FLIR B60 Resources](http://www.aikencolon.com/FLIR-Infrared-Imaging-b60-b-60-IR-Thermal-Imager-Camera_p_1564.html)
Retrotec Duct & Blower Door](http://www.aikencolon.com/Retrotec-Air-Blower-Door-Duct-Systems_c_1074.html)

Wow… Joe… just… wow. I really hope you decide to take on RESNET. That would probably just put the nail the coffin and let you move on. BTW, how’d that suit with FLIR go for ya?

Please Lord, let this be the end-all on this.

It’s hilarious when chihuahua’s ‘yap’ at 'rotties.

Chris Mayes
AC Tool Supply, Inc.

And that’s exactly why they won’t. They’ll continue to go after the little guy in hopes of extorting their “license fee” rather than pursue someoe who would have the means to end the harrasment.

The only way to “muzzle them” is to get the patent thrown out. A Standard, created after the fact (patent), won’t do it.

I hope my main message is not lost in this thread going a bit haywire! Please, as I said, we are looking for input from qualified, concerned parties: " I know many NACHI members who read this board will have experiences that can be incorporated, even given the difference in “mission” between RESNET and a more traditional home inspection"

I’d value input from those with experience and a voice of reason. Thank you!

Thermally Yours,
John Snell
Snell Infrared


I guess we should all stop doing any business on the Internet because there are patents that say we are in violation.

[li]* One-click online shopping (U.S. Patent No. 5,960,411.)[/li][li] Online shopping carts (U.S. Patent No. 5,715,314.)[/li][li] The hyperlink (U.S. Patent No. 4,873,662.)[/li][li] Video streaming (U.S. Patent No. 5,132,992.)[/li][li] Internationalizing domain names (U.S. Patent No. 6,182,148.)[/li][li] Pop-up windows (U.S. Patent No. 6,389,458.)[/li][li] Targeted banner ads (U.S. Patent No. 6,026,368.)[/li][li] Paying with a credit card online (U.S. Patent No. 6,289,319.)[/li][li] Framed browsing; (U.S. Patent Nos. 5,933,841 & 6,442,574.) and*[/li][li]* Affiliate linking (U.S. Patent No. 6,029,141.)*[/li][/ul]

You are repeating yourself John.:roll:

A very real lawsuit directed at a very real person by a very real holder of the “patent” is underway.

iNACHI and others should be in contact with the parties and monitoring developments and being proactive in this fight.

Since you are a provider of IR training services I would think it would concern you greatly.

Other legal minds, who have looked at this matter, say this is
a non-issue. If you want to spend your resources on it, no
one is stopping you. Home Safe has been playing this game
for a long time and has never won any suites, even though
it threatens to do so every day.

It is certainly not a “non-issue” for the inspector being sued. :shock:

Are those same legal minds representing him pro-bono, I hope? :roll:

Or perhaps he can simply walk into court and say that you told him it’s non-issue. Will you write him a note too?

The fact that the defendant will likely win is, I’m sure, of no consequence to that defendant as he pays for his defense.

Please send him a donation if you REALLY care so much.
Then come back and preach to me.

I’m not the one declaring it a “non-issue”

It’s a non-issue for John.

He is not the one being sued.:roll:

But you are the one demanding action from others, while you do nothing yourself.

I am also not the one telling others to take action, while I do nothing. That would be you.

That’s right John. Keep spinning.

WTH are organizations for?

If I had the resources to take homesafe to task, I would.

I asked the leaders in the industry to step up, as FLIR, Fluke, NACHI, ASHI, RESNET, et al could probably take care of all of this in one fell swoop without affecting their finances too much.

Suggesting what others may do is easy to do. Many do it all
the time and there is no harm done with your suggestions.

If others feel that this issue does not rise to the same level
of concern that you do, they should not be accused of causing
harm because they do not feel compelled to join you.

Again, it is easy to say that “others” should be doing something.