# Electrical concerns **URL:** \ **Category:** Misc. Discussion\ **Created:** [October 20, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061 "2022-10-20T16:53:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 4:53pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/1 "2022-10-20T16:53:56Z")
![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/5/e/5/5e59cbe98bef7305614e9f01ec1bc6ed4ca1f4b1.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/c/f/8/cf83f6d417d11dad091fe39340319065c9ea9c4f.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/0/7/7/077dfc79522bd524842a87d924066083829fc963.jpeg) Can someone help me out with why there’s these handle ties and is this panel one of those with a history of issues like FPE/Sylvania/Bulldog?please ! ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 4:58pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/2 "2022-10-20T16:58:07Z")
Appears to be a Westinghouse? ---
**Author:** ![bcawhern1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bcawhern1/32/408713_2.png) [@bcawhern1](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bcawhern1)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 5:08pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/3 "2022-10-20T17:08:33Z")
this has some relevant information > [@Wanted: Good MWBC (multi-wire branch circuit) Diagram](https://forum.nachi.org/t/wanted-good-mwbc-multi-wire-branch-circuit-diagram/220376): > > I am in search of a good diagram to use in reports for a multi-wire branch circuit. To convey to the client what this is in a simple, intuitive, user-friendly diagram. A good diagram would also show the need for a handle tie on these circuits. I have scoured to the deepest depths of the internet (scary places!) and have not been able to find one that would be suitable for a client that might not know much about electricity. Anyone have a good one? @rmayo do you have any interest in taking this… ---
**Author:** ![dhorton2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dhorton2/32/178593_2.png) [@dhorton2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dhorton2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 6:03pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/4 "2022-10-20T18:03:43Z")
They are either MWBC’s, or they are 240V circuits, both of which are required to have handle ties. Sometimes the breakers can be oriented like this (skipping one or two between), but it is fine, as long as the breakers are set up on the same circuit. As far as I know, Westinghouse did not have the same problems as sylvania, and FPE, other than they are just getting older, and outdated. ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 6:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/5 "2022-10-20T18:41:08Z")
I agree, it looks like MWBC’s on the left and 240 volt circuits on the right. Opening the cover would probably confirm it. ---
**Author:** ![rkenney](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rkenney/32/405447_2.png) [@rkenney](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rkenney)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 7:13pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/6 "2022-10-20T19:13:51Z")
Where’s the interior panel picture? ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 9:44pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/7 "2022-10-20T21:44:31Z")
Sorry about that was crazy busy and still am. . Thank You guys for all the help with this! Here’s the interior photos ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/9/a/d/9ad506ebab8ccb9652f584720be06e4578790f4b.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/f/3/b/f3bbcd2e4406d9f4058833e44219d205baca523b.jpeg) ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/5/0/9/509e4e50eafb4c252cb98decc40f0c5ff21a5e6f.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 9:47pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/8 "2022-10-20T21:47:19Z")
I’m not sure I understand Mwbc’s can you explain that! Never seen them . And this panel appears to have multiple double taps ? Thank You again for the help ! ---
**Author:** ![ruecker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ruecker/32/357170_2.png) [@ruecker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ruecker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 9:52pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/9 "2022-10-20T21:52:54Z")
> [@rsteinmetz](#): > > I’m not sure I understand Mwbc’s A MWBC is when two hots (ungrounded conductors) share a neutral (grounded conductor). The breakers serving the two ungrounded conductors need to have their handles tied. Is it just the lighting, or do you have a bunch of aluminum single strand in that panel? ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/e/3/d/e3d17ae1a1919d7ddbf9230f1538e3183ea8cdb8.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![ccurrins](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ccurrins/32/225758_2.png) [@ccurrins](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ccurrins)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 9:58pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/10 "2022-10-20T21:58:04Z")
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**Author:** ![mfellman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mfellman/32/369692_2.png) [@mfellman](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mfellman)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:10pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/11 "2022-10-20T22:10:57Z")
OP, next time you’re at HD/Lowe’s, etc. go look at a blank panel and see how the bus bars are routed. It will make sense why those doubled up 240V beakers have to be set up that way. It’s in order to get 120V off of each incoming leg of power. ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:12pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/12 "2022-10-20T22:12:12Z")
Thank You for the help! And I’ve done that coarse a few times! I’m 52 yrs old buddy and I can’t remember everything! I’ve been building house longer than you been alive probably!! Just never did electrical until I became an inspector 3 years ago! So don’t be a wise bleep ! Not appreciated that dig ! Sorry if I took it wrong. But take it easy please! ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:28pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/13 "2022-10-20T22:28:10Z")
Also I guess I should be more to the point of why are there handle ties on bedroom 120 volt and kitchen/dining room breakers ? That s what they are labeled ---
**Author:** ![ruecker](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ruecker/32/357170_2.png) [@ruecker](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ruecker)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:31pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/14 "2022-10-20T22:31:07Z")
> [@rsteinmetz](#): > > Also I guess I should be more to the point of why are there handle ties on bedroom 120 volt and kitchen/dining room breakers ?. Probably because they are MWBCs’. If you turn off one of the circuits, you want the other circuit to be turned off also, since it shares the neutral. Did you see my question about the aluminum single strand conductors? Is it just the lighting or do you have a bunch of aluminum single strand in that panel? ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:33pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/15 "2022-10-20T22:33:19Z")
Here’s a few photo’s of an Eaton 40/80 circuit panel I had laying around. I stuck in a few CB’s so you can see the bus arrangement. ![Eaton 40-80.001](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/d/a/a/daa95bccdb44f3ede313b817cc98b3058a1bd961.jpeg) ![Eaton 40-80.002](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/4/4/7/44760cef8b545d2afb84586d46abe3f0169eab16.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:48pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/16 "2022-10-20T22:48:08Z")
I don’t think they were aluminum appears shiny looking in the photos. Cause whole right side is copper ![image](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/4X/3/9/6/396347f1830f80669f89a82abcee4c7a6660b8cf.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 10:49pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/17 "2022-10-20T22:49:23Z")
Looks different when I load the photos ---
**Author:** ![bsweet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bsweet/32/224623_2.png) [@bsweet](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bsweet)\ **Post date:** [October 20, 2022, 11:37pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/18 "2022-10-20T23:37:11Z")
I don’t think he was trying to be a smart ass. There is a lot of very helpful stuff in that training material. I’m always refreshing my memory. If you have a moment check out Electrician U on YouTube. Tons of great information explained very well. ---
**Author:** ![rsteinmetz](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rsteinmetz/32/179995_2.png) [@rsteinmetz](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rsteinmetz)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 1:43am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/19 "2022-10-21T01:43:03Z")
Thank all of you again for the explanation is very clear to me now! I try to go over the course when I can . Always learning! I have to go back to get Radon device Saturday so I’ll re-check those potential aluminum conductors again! But soon as I see some defects then I was told to not do the electrical contractor s job for him ! Let him evaluate everything! Appreciate everything !! ---
**Author:** ![lhenderson2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lhenderson2/32/58205_2.png) [@lhenderson2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lhenderson2)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2022, 2:13pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/electrical-concerns/221061/20 "2022-10-21T14:13:28Z")
Has the minor crime of white wires used as ungrounded conductors (hots) without being designated for that use.