Originally Posted By: rray
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Very, very informative. Thanks, Dennis.
–
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Very, very informative. Thanks, Dennis.
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Anytime Russ.
I have only encountered one panel in my lifetime that actually had voltage on the metal enclosure. Funny thing was I removed the cover without even checking for such and as I looked at the panel I didn't even see a possible source to cause such. I noticed though that the panel was not grounded so I decided to ground it. As soon as I touched tha panel with the ground wire I drew a nice arc. I went hmmm....and being a bit crazy I touched it again. Was a pretty blue and yellow arc....and I went hmmm again. Amazingly it did not trip a breaker, but I just had to try it one more time....I liked them pretty colors. So I did such and this time a bit longer as if I was trying to weld my name in the panel using the ground wire as a pen....the breaker the circuit was attached to finally tripped. By the way this was a FPE panel....ahem.
I inspected the wire from the breaker and at the connector for it. This was quite difficult for the panel was like 5 pounds of crap in a 4 pound bag. After yanking and pulling a rat's nest size of wires away from the enclosure, I noticed that someone cut into the wire when they tried to strip the insulation from the romex. The black wire was then touching the metal romex connector and therefore causing the panel enclosure to be live from memorex.
Something you should all realize though. If a panel is energized with voltage on it's enclosure....any metal going to that panel will also be energized. If you have greenfield (flex) or MC or conduit attaching to the panel, it will also be energized with voltage and will shock ya if you ground yourself is any way. So the panel should be the very first thing you check for if you do it after you look at the conduit or flex that is run here and there....you could get the same shock you would get from the panel when touching any metal coming from the panel.
If there is a ground in the panel, any wire touching the enclosure in a way that voltage can be induced to the enclosure, should trip the breaker for it provides a direct short from the voltage to ground. So a good rule to follow is to check the outside of the enclosure to see if any ground wires are coming out of it. If they are, there is an excellent chance the panel is ok to touch. If you do not see any ground wires coming from out of the panel, then take the necessary precautions. However, I believe the chances of a panel being energized on it's metal parts are slim, but not impossible. If it is a FPE panel....good luck. I never finished writing my name with that ground wire....but I have often held wirenuts in my hands as they burned to a toasty crisp because a FPE breaker failed to open up when a improper splice was made shorting a neutral to a hot. Such does happen often if someone made a neutral wire blue or red.
--
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis … having fun welding with that FPE panel, eh …
I don't know about the standard leather gloves though. A sparkie friend told me you are better off with the insulated gloves or nothing at all, because sweat wearing the typical gloves tends to actually make you more conductive and you are more likely to get shocked.
I have a pair of 600V electrician gloves from a buddy (special lined std size gloves with a rubber inner sleeve) ... not too bad to use. Dont know how much they are, but it has to be a lot less than those $500 high voltage gloves that go up your arms. Probably a good investment considering it could save your life as a non-electrician poking around in old "homeowner special" panels in damp basements.
Most important thing is the 3-layer rule though. That tells you WET BASEMENT = DANGER because you just lost one of your possible protection layers ...
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Well I wear the leather only because they are easy to work with. I know for a fact that they aren’t insulated but for what a HI would use them for, I think they would be fine. However, the gloves you speak of would work better. Being a sparky, I know how to work with electric and sometimes when I am tying in a new service I don’t wear gloves at all
But then that is how my hair got curly
--
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Dennis…
Have tied in several hundred live service changeovers myself over the years…for some reason, I am always thinking about my obituary while I am doing it… (true statement, not joking) … but always on a fiberglass ladder and always making sure I am clear of the “other phase” and the neutral (grounded conductor) and of course any type of grounding…oh yeah… and I make sure the electric meter is still out… had an “experienced electrician” almost kill me in my rookie year of electrical work when he plugged the watt/hour meter back in and had me connect the service live… 220 right across my heart and up 25 feet on the ladder… anyway… the point I really wanted to make is… besides gloves, if you choose to wear them… if anyone is going to remove a panel cover or expose themselves to “live” electricity in any way… please, do yourself a big favor and wear eye protection… if there is a spark, even a small one… it sends 40,000 degree moltan copper flying thru the air at very high speed and could easily blind you… safety googles of some type will do the trick and a face shield is even better… your chances with the ladies will greatly decrease if you get copper schrapnel all over your pretty faces…
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Not to mention that a flash of sparks is the same as looking into a welder's arc, which can cause damage to the eye.
--
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Jack … good point about the eye protection. I just use the safety glasses.
btw, how does your obituary read ... "electrician who enjoyed welding with FPE panels, creating bright colorful flashes and melting wires ..."
Probably a good thing to consider while doing live changeovers ... keeps you on your toes ... 
--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee
I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
I’ve been welding with FPE panels for nearly 35 years now…hasn’t done me in yet
–
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.
Originally Posted By: jmcginnis
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Robert… no, that would be Dennis’ obit… mine would say… extremely handsome, friendly, and wonderful electrician killed in fall from ladder while making live service connections… will be missed greatly by everyone…have a Guinness in his memory
Hey… it’s my obit!!!Originally Posted By: Dennis Bozek
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Electrician dies while trying to weld with FPE panel! Appears that just as he was getting ready to dot the I in his name, a rare occurrence took place. The FPE breaker feeding his welding rod tripped. Thus, the electrician suffered a heart attack…for that was a shocking occurrence!!!
–
This information has been edited and reviewed for errors by your favorite resident sparky.