Cam Allen has asked me to post this response to Tom Lloyd on the Canuck Forum. I am also posting it here without comment.
Bill Mullen
Greetings Mr Mullen; I would like to ask you to post the following note on your forum. I cannot access the OAHI forum, have not been able to for some time now.
Thank You
Good Evening to All OAHI Members
I have purposely waited a few days to see the reaction of the OAHI Board. I am very, very disappointed in the action they have taken. I will now set the record straight and clear. I attended the OAHI Board Meeting on July 27th as requested. I fully admit I did not attend the first three meetings and I deeply apologize for this, it was due to business and personal reasons. One of which was the passing of Ron Tropea, someone I liked and admired for his honesty. I was ready to attend the June Meeting for the OAHI Board and we received a message from Mr Lloyd who simply said the meeting was cancelled due to "scheduling issues" No other reason was given, some OAHI board members questioned this but to my knowledge they were not answered.
This brings me to the Meeting of July 27th. I attended the meeting with 5 other board members in attendance and one member on phone conference. Mr Lloyd opened the meeting and then directed a tirade at myself for missing the meetings, I apologized. He then asked me to sign the confidentiality agreement. I refused, based upon legal advise and he immediately attacked me over the "White Paper on OAHI" that I wrote years ago. He claimed I could not be trusted to keep my mouth shut. I directed questions to him about the National Program to which he claimed that " Bill 58 takes time to change" and that "the National Program is not the only priority" . By now Mr Lloyd was visibly shaking and loudly announced the meeting was closed. At which point I left the room, I had been advised by the President that the meeting was over.
My opinion here is brief, there were four other board members not present.......Why? Why is a confidentiality agreement necessary, it is very simple. It would give certain individuals in OAHI the grounds to sue any director who does not tow the line. I have already seen their lawsuits in action....No Thanks. Where are we now.....I am going to attend the next meeting and will see how I am addressed. Anyone who has read the OAHI regulations know what has been done here is wrong, contrary to Mr Lloyds comment. If I am removed again I will continue forward thru other means to remain on the board. I was the only one to step up from Kingston, volunteer work is time consuming. I also firmly believe that the financial records of this organization need to have a forensic audit, as a matter of fact my motion was on the agenda for this meeting to have this audit adopted.
My personal comments. It is no secret that I am a strong supporter of the CAHPI National Program. I have felt for years, as have many others that the OAHI process is restrictive and we need another approach. I have read the comments on other HI web sites about what has happened. I have felt for years and still believe strongly that a responsible, respected "Made in Canada" program that is open to all is a good start. The CAHPI National Certification is not perfect, but at least it is a good start. There are some good people involved, Claude Lawrenson is an excellent leader who deserves our respect and a chance to lead us. Is it now the time to open the doors and give this process a chance?
On September 10th in Kingston I intend to hold an open door meeting for "All" home inspectors, it is not an OAHI Meeting, rather a chance to sit down with other HI"s, maybe shake the hands of those you have questioned. I have invited Claude and Bill, hopefully their schedules permit making the trip. Come join us, what have you got to loose......the price of a great dinner at Minos Restaurant in Kingston. That is all it will cost you. Myself and some other respected like minded HI"S are covering the room rental and any other costs. If you shake my hand, I might even buy you a beer and see if we can talk a National Idea for all of Us.....you may meet some friends.........What have you got to loose???
Thanks Cam, I appreciate what you have said .
We both agree on many things .
I left you have chosen to stay and fight .
I wish you all the best and hope things do improve drastically.
Thanks again Roy Cooke sr.
I will send this to Cam also.
Playing by the by-laws/Roberts Rules of Order? Me thinks not.
No one has ever been sued by OAHI for breach of confidentiality agreements, only threats to sue. Intimidation, blackmail, conflicts?
Due process once again has taken a back seat to membership rights and Directors rights.
There must be an awful lot of dirt CAHPI-OAHI doesn’t want being told. Thus the need for a confidentiality agreement. Considering what is taking place in CAHPI-OAHI accountability wise, with lack of BOD reports, financial info, membership numbers, et al. I am surprised the other directors appear to have been so eager to sign, and then force a director out. Why would anyone sign a confidentiality agreement when it would not protect someone from negligence at the corporate level or from revealing possible breach of various provincial ACTS and laws? Even more so if we believe what is relayed in the communique that Mr. Allen’s counsel suggested he not sign it.
I have also been informed that the same communique posted here by Bill Mullen on behalf of Mr. Allen has been removed from the CAHPI-OAHI CAFE forum. I guess they don’t want Mr. Allen’s side being told. So expect the number of hits to go up as CAHPI-OAHI members come here to get their news that CAHPI-OAHI doesn’t want them to have. Freedom of Speech is a door mat at CAHPI-OAHI!
This exactly what we have know all along NACHI is the only place that has freedome of speech.
Bill Mullens Canuk forum does not allow it .
The CAHPI BB did not allow it.
The CAHPI national Certification group comes to the NACHI BB to get its message out.
NACHI has continually offered communication and help to all Canadains.
They have been courteous to all Canadian associations .
Unfortunately this has not been returned at all. It is a secret how they do thing and they all do not wish others ( Including their own membership ) Know what is going on .
I did not renew my membership in OAHI because they would not follow their own rules .
I had laid a charge on one of the directors and they just stone walled and ignored my asking for a hearing .
Talk about protecting them selves .
They have had two Financial secretaries leave in mid term due to irregulartie.
OAHI has had other many other directors quit because of OAHI not following the OAHI/CAHPI rules.
These are the people who come to our BB and give no information and expect us to join their National Certification.
Still No information has be given out on the NAtional Certification…
Sorry I am not interested in another secret group who do not follow the rules .
I feel NACHI and The Certified Master Inspector will do more for a lot less money.
(d) If by notice in writing to the Secretary of the Association he resigns his office and such resignation, if not effective immediately, becomes effective in accordance with its terms; or
(e) If he ceases to be an RHI Member.
The members of the Association may, by resolution passed by at least two-thirds of the votes cast at a general meeting of which notice specifying the intention to pass such resolution has been given, remove any director before the expiration of his term of office and may, by a majority of the votes cast at such meeting elect any RHI Member in his stead for the remainder of his term.
It sure is remarkable how much power Mr. Lloyd has.
What is even stranger is the fact that Mr. Lloyd once again has been able to demonstrate his inability to acknowledge fair play, and committment to the by-laws he undertook to uphold upon his election, along with his cohorts who clearly do not wish the true story to be told.
Just how long are the members of CAHPI-OAHI going to be lulled into the false sense of security in thinking that their rights will be protected from zealots who are quite prepared to squander peoples enshrined rights?
Just how many more members will be subject to the wants and dictates of people on their so called elected board that have also lied to them about the financial state of affairs and the lack of proper BOD meeting minutes?
Members where told if they wanted to see the financial info to go to head office. While I can tell you I took them up on that offer, and the records do not exist, because they could not produce them at CAHPI-OAHI lawyers office, which is the corporate head office? Come folks its not rocket science, and you don’t have to be a detective to figure out something stinks and doesn’t jive eh!.
Just how many more fiascos, resignations, lies, are going to be allowed to be perpetrated by these clowns who are drunk with power and don’t give a damn about good governance? Just look how Mr. Lloyd accused many of us of misuing CHI and then had the decentcy to report us to ASTTBC only to find out he was completely out to lunch about OAHI holding the rights to CHI in Ontario.
Raymond ,My wife ( Char ) belongs to a Genealogy Group of about 400~.
Before they send out the year end they require a non member to go over the Books and the financial statement.
They do not require a CA but it must not be a member to confirm the Figures.
We spent a couple of hours to find a missing penny to be sure that all was done properly.
Every member got a complete break down of all expenses and how they where spent.
When I was with OAHI I never saw this done.
I was on the OAHI elections committee for 3 or more times and not once was the elections held properly.
I have no reason to expect that the finances could be any different.
I expect some day there could be a meeting of the minds and under oath there could be information come out .
Just like at my appeal against OAHI under oath the truth came out and I won my case 5 for me 0 for OAHI.
There are a lot of great honest Home Inspectors who deserve to know what has gone on in the past.
Far be it for me to come to the defense of O.A.H.I. but most if not all large corporations make their chief financial officer(s) adhere to a confidentiality agreement of one kind or another. This position allows it’s holder to access the kind of information that should not be released to the competition for obvious business reasons. Frankly, with a history of “outing” O.A.H.I. like that of Cam Allen’s ( the much talked about “White Paper”) it comes as no surprise that this organization would want him to sign such an agreement. Let’s face facts. He is a bit of a loose cannon and it shouldn’t surprise anyone that O.A.H.I. might be a little cautious in this case.
Whether we like Cam or not to ignore corruption of an association is wrong. To me it looks like he is the only one with Balls to stand up for what is correct and proper.
Corruption is not merely a dirty, word. It describes a dirty act. We need to have a policy of zero tolerance towards all acts of corruption-Sri. T.N.Chathurvedi , Governor of Karnataka.
Here’s another one: Good governance requires ***accountability ***between those in positions of power and those whose interests they are supposed to be serving - the members. Accountability cannot be effective unless there is reasonable communication, transparency and openness in the conduct of the organization’s work. Governance must be fair, which implies conformity to the rule of law and principles of equity.
I agree Roy. Whether we like this person or not is irrelevant. The point is that this organization, a registered corporation, has the right to protect itself from those who might be on a personal crusade. Too, whether or not we would like to see O.A.H.I. gutted and it’s inner workings and darkest secrets displayed for all to see, the reality is that we should not be surprised to see the corporation trying to protect itself from someone as destructive as has been evidenced.
I support full disclosure. I support this disclosure coming from a popular uprising of the membership, but not through the theatrics of one member bent on personal aggrandizement.
It is a Registered Non Profit Organization .
There is a difference,
To deprive the members of true information properly presented is another thing that did not happen.
Rules are ignored or not followed is far from correct.
To attack the whistle blower is not the best thing to do in my opinion.
It has been this way for many years just a very few have been out spoken and many members no longer attend meetings .
And a good % have just given up many have left the industry or the association because of the treatment they have seen others receive.
I support Cam fully and hope he is able to get enough support to have this settled once and for all.
Having been a member for some years and having communicated with many I might just know a little more then many others on how OAHI runs.
… Cookie
Heck, when I was a director I was accused of “guilt by association”. That in itself is an interesting “phrase”. I was dismissed from a BOD meeting to have information about me discussed, without the right to defend myself in their presence.
In the end, on being called back to the meeting I called their bluff for my “official” removal from the BOD. The premise of the guilt by association was based on hearsay evidence presented by a vindictive member. I argued that I was elected by the members and had a right to attend BOD meetings. Earlier reference to the by laws indicates the grounds for removal. Sometimes people are judged by that reference - guilt by association. It should ring a bell to some of the complaints that have fallen off the track. Other times those personal biases surface and cause much of the tension.
Legal Obligations? I don’t think CAHPI-OAHI understands that concept.
Do you really think the minutes exist of that meeting?
Why would the CAFE forum administrator be instructed to remove Mr. Allens rebuttal as posted by Bill Mullen? Surely Mr. Allen who is a member in good standing, and found of no wrong doing, must be afforded the opportunity to explain his side, given Mr. Lloyd’s communique.
This is more than a confidentiality agreement, this is a turf war between CAHPI-OAHI/NATIONAL and ego’s.
Well at least Cam had good intentions in calling for an audit. Lets not overlook that, because he is right in calling for a full forensic audit. He is not the only voice calling for that, so kudos to him for having the caljones (sp) for doing so.
Remember Cam Allen and Gil Strachan all told us only a couple of years ago that everyone in Nachi Canada would join the National because it is a good thing and they fully endorsed it on behalf of us all! This edict was made without any consultation of Nachi Canada members. Needless to say that attempt went to hell in a hand basket.
Round 2.
Cam invites folks to come down and hear all about the National. Maybe some other tittilating info, and a plea for attendees to join the National because they need the members. Clearly this latest fiasco between Cam Allen and Mr. Lloyd speaks to the issues and fears of CAHPI-OAHI getting onside with the National.
Lets all wait and see what comes of the meeting Cam is going to host.
Lets also not forget that regardless whether you like Cam, there is the very serious matter of the manner in which he was disposed of, without recall by the members. No one has been able to substantiate via the by-laws that Mr. Lloyd and Directors acted within the confines of the rules. If Mr. Lloyd and party cannot follow the by-laws as has been repeatedly shown, how the hell does anyone outside/inside of OAHI or in Nachi expect to be treated fairly and ethically when you have this sort of negligence occurring with regard to the National. Some of these same people sit on CAHPI and OAHI Boards?
