Not in the entirety, I make my living finding lots of problems created by “licensed experts”. Don’t ever trust your reputation to someone else.
I did not say you could be held responsible for a house burning down, I said you could get sued over it. Report writing is also about full disclosure and warning the client about what you could not inspect. If you don’t remove the panel cover at least remove a few outlet covers and look for aluminum wiring that way.
No I got your point and agree with it. I just don’t like removing them especially if I don’t have to. However both you and Bruce made some strong points so I’ll keep on removing them. My deal is everytime I do remove them I seem to trip a breaker. Last time I shut down the AC. Was not pretty. The breakers felt like they could fall out at any minute.
I’ve had the same thing happen to me and even the city electrical inspector backed it up. See Previous Post. There were many other problems with the panel. The electrician said it was OK and grandfathered in.
That brings up another point, some electricians do not want to replace a panel. Why? They know that they will actually need a valid electrical license, a permit and a city business license (if house is within a city limit). Many simply do not have all of this current and only want the quick small jobs.
Bruce get this I’m going back to a house on Monday that has a new panel in it however no electrician has signed off on the panel. The only label on it is the manufacture label. The sellers had a guy coming out on Sunday to finish the HVAC installation as well. :shock: What professional heat and air guys you know that works on Sunday’s? I told the buyer to head on down and check for permits.
Billy don’t forget your service area (St. Louis Metropolitan). 
City of Saint Louis: Electrical permits
An Owner can receive an electrical permit if the following criteria is met:
- Owner occupies the dwelling unit;
- Owner purchases the necessary equipment for the installation and/or repair;
- Owner successfully passes a short test given by the Electrical Section to determine that the Owner has sufficient knowledge of the Electrical Code to do the work;
- Owner obtains an electrical permit to do the electrical work and all the work meets all code requirements.
The Owner’s electrical permit is applicable to single-family, Owner-occupied dwelling units only.
Examples of electrical work requiring electrical permits and field inspection include the following:
- Installation of a new electrical service, or any addition to or alteration of the existing branch circuit;
- Installing new electrical outlets and/or light fixtures;
- Installation of new fuse or circuit breaker panels.
Mechanical permits:
Mechanical permits can be issued to either the Owner or the Mechanical Contractor.
For the most part, mechanical permits are issued for residential buildings containing six (6) units or more and commercial buildings.
However, when a central air conditioner is installed in a private residence, the unit cannot be placed in front of the building line.
O my gosh how scary is this. Incredible. So are you telling me that a home owner can simply go out and buy the panel or a air conditioning or heater unit without a license and as long as they pass a short test the permit is granted? “Shaking my head” WOW
So who determines if the owner met all code requirements? There wasn’t even a city code inspection sticker on the panel.
Hate to resurrect an old thread but thought this might fit.
How about a FP disconnect for a furnace? Problem or no?
Why do you think there is an issue with the dis-connect ?
The problems are only with stab-loc.
As Bob said and as far as I know there was never really a problem with FPE disconnect switches.
Joe, this thread started in 10/09. did you ever post the article you mention that you are creating?
Thanks for the info.
Greg,
My attorney advised me to back off. Federal Pacific still exists as a legal entity, as managed through an attorney’s office. The mantra is to sue those who attempt to speak of the fraud which resulted in them losing many UL listings across much of their line (not limited to StabLock).
Let me put it to you this way; point out Federal Pacific and some problems and alleged problems in their line. I no longer limit it to Stab Lock. Call for an evaluation by a licensed contractor, and explain why.
Pass the liability to others. I no longetr call out Stab Lock related problems specifically, as the problem went much further. I call it out as a general concern.
Allegations came down to false walls, rigged tests, failed equipment, and worse.
Thanks Joe - I always point out the FPE (as well as Zinsco and Sylvania) and just explain the problem with them and suggest a qualified electrican examine for REPLACEMENT. An electrican can’t see any more than I can so haaving him look at it for repair is a waste of time. Was just hoping for more definitive info but will continue with what I currently say and do.
During my first paid inspection, I encountered a FPE panel with Stab Lok breakers. Of course the label on the outside of the panel was missing and the inside label was worn…so I removed the cover… Four breakers tripped and fell completely out!! Luckily they all fed the basement area including the lights—where I was with the prospective buyer standing next to me !! :eek: There’s nothing like trying to calm a client while you are trying to hold four breakers in place and reattach the cover all at the same time. I told the client that there were a few issues in need of review by a licensed electrician. In my report I was clear about the possible issue and again stressed the need for an electrician to review the panel and other parts of the service—including the lack of a proper ground and the bonding wire that had corroded and broken (it was run along a stone wall that had lots of effloresence).
Maybe my thinking is flawed–but I’d rather get in trouble for “being and alarmist” than in trouble for a house full of people killed by bad breakers.
Those FPE panel covers are very difficult to remove without tripping some breakers. Although Ive heard of them falling out, I have never experienced that happening. Perhaps in removing the cover and catching the breaker, they are pulled out. Which tells me its not a good connection to the buss anyway.
I have been told by some electrical inspectors, that they wont even take the dead front off, for fear of breakers falling out…Be very careful.