Foundation removal for HVAC

Here is the link that did not work in post #15.
Although this is depicting metal framing, the the intent is the same for wood framing. Multiple rim joist can be added to supplement the load factor. :slight_smile:

http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7…0Opening-4.pdf

My feeling exactly.
Also depends on the veneer.

Obviously this is not an exterior wall. if it were, it would have a rim joist carrying part of the load and acting as a header, but you can see the ductwork going through to the other side, so this is an interior foundation wall supporting a bearing wall above, probably a hallway wall. The wall above has drywall shear on both sides plus three wall plates (a bottom and two top plates [probably]), plus the treated plate on top of the foundation for a total of 6" of solid wood. Unless there is a point load from the roof above the opening (or even if there is) does anyone think the entire wall, its plates, the subfloor and treated plate are all going to sag and the drywall is going to crack?
I’d call it out as improper and rcommend correction, but I think if you left it alone, 50 years down the line, it would look just like it does right now.

Nice touch Kenton.
What about the moisture stains?
Call it?
I would.

I am going to disagree with you Kenton on 2 fronts.
I will retract my last knee jerk post.
The CMU bearing wall has a galvanized plate on top. A termite guard ( I suspect )
Those are hollow CMU blocks. If not they would be capped.
1.) the angle of the floor joists in the photo may stop the viewing of the rim joist.
I also see moisture staining on the ends of the floor joists above the sill plate. Above the HVAC branch line.
2.) Look behind the CMU’S. There are clay brick.
I suspect a remodel and HVAC UPGRADE.
Surrounding the main trunk line looks like tentest insulation board on the ( suspect exterior wall ) Playing it safe…,.
That is a masonry exterior wall. CMU for load and brick veneer on a foundation of ? I can not see…
Why would you need brick and CMU for the support wall. The CMU is load bearing.
I suspect exterior HVAC SYSTEM BUMPED UP ALONGSIDE THE HOME.
Just drawing a hypotheses from the brick behind the CMU’s.
FEED BACK?

  • Ooooop, you’re right Robert, Never seen a galvanized plate before. So that only leaves 4 1/2 inches of solid wood. Like a 4x4 header only stronger.
  • I see hollow CMU in bearing walls often here.
  • Where does that large duct go if not into another portion of the space beneath the home? A duct that size does not go out to heat a porch. It could be an addition but that should be verified by Sean. No need for us to speculate about that. Since he’s not responding, I suspect that he’s just a RABBLE-ROUSER trying to get us going and then sitting back and enjoying the fuss and speculation he creates.

I see the brick you’re talking about, but if you added a brick addition, there would be no brick on the side of the home tying into the existing home with the block foundation. If the original structure were the brick structure, they’d have blocked out for the heating system, no? I think Sean might shed a little more light on this if he were to post.

Always check out moisture stains and mention them if there’s a possibility that they might be from conditions that could cause conditions anytime soon. If they’re dry and appear to be from conditions that have been corrected… mention that too.

Actually it doesn’t really work like that. Three (3) flatwise 2x4’s would have a strength/stiffness of about 3.0 in^4, while a 4x4 would have a strength/stiffness of about 12.5 in^4. They would need to all be prepared and glued together under pressure, like with a Glulam … http://www.apawood.org/level_b.cfm?content=prd_glu_main, in order to get that extra strength (plate nailing isn’t nearly enough).

Four flatwise 2x4’s (6" of almost solid wood) has a strength of about 5.9 in^4, which still wouldn’t even be close to the strength of a double 2x10 header at around 197.8 in^4 … :shock: … And there is the possibility of plate splices in the area which make that even more unreliable as support.

Funny thing about structures is that they can be very weak but look perfectly fine … right up to the point where they fail or collapse from an unusual event … sometimes every 50 - 100 years apart on average, sometimes more often. It happens all the time.

NEVER soft sell structural issues or make an assessment on strength or longevity from a visual inspection. You can end up with your butt in a sling. From industry studies there is a reason that the highest liability area for HI’s is the structural part of an inspection. Repairs can be expensive and it’s more complicated than it appears on the surface

JMO & 2-Nickels … :wink:

The photo is the side fo the home and the duct work went to the package unit. Not much room in that one for good photos but yes it is the main run.

As far as the hole in the wall goes, its hit or miss with the metal flashing over the sills for older homes.

Most of the foundation holes I see are on the side so the only real load would be from the side itself. Most ranch homes are simple girder and front to rear floor joists.

For some odd reason the builder decided to change it up and some of the joists rested on that side of the foundation wall and sill. I would think that in itself would be more of a reason to call the hole out, and not so much when the sill has no suporting joists on it.

As far as the moisture goes, any home over 50 years and with a crawl will be full of moisture stains and moisture.
You should consider my hot humid climate.

You should also consider staying off from some of the drugs I have wondered about…:stuck_out_tongue:

Mr. Fogarty
I have never seen that kind of HVAC system before.
What does the main unit look like.
The main trunk line is insulated flexible duct work… Exposed to the elements will be vulnerable to damage unless chased in.
Exterior photos please.

[quote=“sfogarty, post:30, topic:62299”]

As far as the moisture goes, any home over 50 years and with a crawl will be full of moisture stains and moisture.
You should consider my hot humid climate.

As for your statement about drugs sir, another Amercian small mined that has been thrown up not brought up.
As for the drugs. It amazes me that American populous that pushes more drugs on the world than all the county’s combined combined would have a war on drugs Sean.
No problem-o Sean. :slight_smile:
Another American Hippocratic.

If you look up at floor joist above that restricted ) squeezed and bent ) HVAC branch line it is not moisture. It is wet. Dripping wet.
Ready for organic life to take hold. The type of life that likes wood cellulose.
Boot clamp may be loose.

Controlling crawl space humidity.
Vented, vapor barrier in contact with the ground.
Vapor barrier.
Most of the moisture in the crawl space is not coming from the ground. Since some
moisture does
, it is a problem that has to be addressed.
Vapor barrier.
Venting
Unassisted airflow in and out of the crawl space via foundation vents is minimal, and not much of a factor in controlling crawl space moisture.
The Standard Building Code specifies a ratio of foundation ventilation area to crawl space area.

Mechanical pressure control
The average relative humidity in the home without the vapor pressure controlled
device is 70%, whereas the home with the device averaged 52%. Using a fan only at
the right time becomes highly beneficial.
The problem becomes when to ventilate? Ventilation should occur only when
outdoor vapor pressure (moisture) is lower than crawl space vapor pressure.
Only mechanical ventilation can fulfill this requirement.
vapor pressure controlled device
They have a high efficiency HVAC to climate control the living area Mr. Fogarty.
The same has to be done to the crawl space.

So quick snark remarks and knee-jerk comments like Linas uses on me or I used in the past at times only places you inside the very same circle of conduct.
The one you are making lite of sir.
At certain times of the day I am rushed to cram as much information as I can.
Too do the most I can. It will be digested when I have quite time.
Yes I make mistakes. Be patient.
I have several screens open to web sites, documents, my photos and things that are old school to experienced home inspectors.
Not to me sir.

Cramming in as much information as I can before the regular routine of the daylight hours or uneventful times enter life. That’s all.
I am caring for an elderly blind family member in poor health that has had her 4th stroke and just returned from rehabilitation.
So I am busy, to say the least.
Daylight hours
Then I am removed from my work or studies. Simple as that sir.
So the hypothetical at the moment is absurd and insulting.

I take it as an offense and ask you as a gentleman to avoid using slanderous comments at any INACHI MEMBER PLEASE.
It is a simple request.

Not many crawl spaces in Montreal Quebec by the way sir.
I have done 3 in 4 years of home inspections. Under 100.

The humidity and moisture in the atmosphere is is as great I suspect.
RH Averages mid 80’s in the summer months.
At times a frequent freeze and thaw cycle , with a 6.5 foot deep ground frost zone are our observations to hypothesize when doing inspections in Montreal Quebec.
So our atmospheric humidity levels are similar I suspect.

All I know Mr. Fogarty is that if those conditions exceeded in my region ( they do, but the seasonal temperature differences ) I would do everything in my power to understand, explain, and help my client understand.
If I was preforming a maintenance inspection, I would try to help him reduce the high humidity’s possible negative effects.

As for you comment about drugs.
America is the biggest pusher of drugs in the world. Monsanto that is poisoning the world and the Big Pharma that is eating away at your medicare social system with there intense greed and lobbing power.

1/3 of your jails are full of young black American men and native American men.
It is not a war on drugs. It is a business industry created by the wealthy.
To bad.
America could learn lessons from European counties and how they deal with substance abuse.

Nice link. Thanks Robert.

I understand, and I agree, that’s not how I’d present it to a client. I’d recommend correction. I was just responding to the original post and thinking of the homes that I’ve demo’d and how sometimes they’re difficult to make fail when you want them to. Beat on a wall, rock it back and forth and finally find one 8d nail that’s holding the whole thing together…

Good information, Robert, thanks.

What I find really amazing is how difficult it is to tare apart older wood framing with nails like mini rail spikes, but how weak the structure is compared to Mother Nature without modern anchors, tie downs, and shear walls.

P.S. Good job on the initial article on concrete inspection. Should be a good series of articles … :wink:

The wood was wet because the ducts have been wet all summer from humidity…

I will go with cocaine since you seem to ramble in long paragraphs…:stuck_out_tongue:

As he finally admits to moisture.
The wood was wet. HA HA HA
Boot problem. Hmmm. I thought some one mentioned that.
Gee you tell your client how to elevate the problem.
Go ahead use my information.
Small men see or hear nothing in life but there own common words.
Amazing how small a man you really are sir.

Now here is what I will do seeing I am tolerant AND HAVE UNFORTUNATELY disused home inspection questions on threads with negative INACHI members like yourself.
When I acted badly when I first arrived on the MB I though it was the noror. As the months went bad I saw others doing ot. Hmmm.
Then I saw one member being taken apart by all. He was a nice man I thought, so I changed my perception of the MB the members and my standings on the board and went to his defense.
2 sides to every coin Mr.F.
I woke up and apologies to all personally and several times admitting I was in error. I was an azz. Complete and utter fool.
No excuses.
Seeing you have a closed and unprofessional attitude at the moment, I will try to wake it up for your own sake.
OK MR. Fogarty?:slight_smile:

You can make a formal apology.
Retract the statement with full apology to myself and any other member you have attacked with slanderous comments like this or I go forward and make a formal complaint against you.
12 years sober and clean sir.
No police convictions for drugs and will open my life to any one whom asks in a positive way. Non of your business but there I am sir.
I have nothing to hide sir.
I an conscious being, tired, and had enough from insulting members like you…
I have recorded your post with that sipping thingy on the windows computer. I think I took a photo of the page too. Well yes I did.

I will use it as evidence when posting my complaint against you to state officials that regulate HOME INSPECTOR LICENSING AND THEN INACHI ETHICS BOARD TO SEE HOW THEY WISH TO PROCEED.
all is being said without prejudice.

I do hope your insurance is paid up and your state license is in good standing without any blemishes.
Because people like you have have to make decisions to act professional and stop. For me there is no place on the INACHI MESSAGE BOARD SIR when such vile accusations are mad against a fellow home inspector.
You take lite of the American laws that have been past sense 911 to stop innocent people from fling.

You are unaware of what actions like your slanderous remarks can do to an individual trying to cross state lines.
No more sir.
I asked you as a gentlemen to stop.
You decided to proceed and defend a post you made incorrectly or without completing it and by admitting there was moisture and a remedies to elieveate the high RH.
WOW is all I can say at this time…
Now you have gone to far.:twisted:
So now the ball is in your court so to speak.
all is being said without prejudice.

Enough rambling for you Mr. Fogarty?:slight_smile:
I await your reply.

Obviously you can’t take any type of kidding.
and for the record you personally were not there so you have no clue what condition that crawlspace was in. Big whoop it had some moisture on the wood. All the ductwork was dripping with condensation as well. Most older crawls are always wet to some degree.

My initial question had nothing to do with water issues…

Maybe its a drinking habit instead…