FPE

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#1

Originally Posted By: jpope
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eusa_think.gif Are double taps okay on Federal Pacific panel boards?




Before anyone answers, I'm only kidding. FPE breakers are not listed for two wires and probably shouldn't be listed for even one wire.

This home had an FPE service panel and a Zinsco panel for the pool equipment.



Needless to say, the homeowner did not like me

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#2

Originally Posted By: kwilliams
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Is anything okay on Federal Pacific panel board?




--
Member - MAB

http://www.nachi.org/convention2006.htm

#3

Originally Posted By: dspencer
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Little off subject but what program does eveyone use to place arrows and highlights on photos?


I use CorelDraw/Photopaint.... Just curious.

#4

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Paint shop pro here

#5

Originally Posted By: bbadger
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Heres an FPE switch I ran into, there is a major defect (besides the hole) with the installation of this switch.


In this case size does not matter, this happens to be a 400 amp 3 phase switch but the violation would just as easily apply to a 30 amp disconnect switch in a house.

![](upload://ukX73mLcdJ97kmuLAKd84xZaFly.jpeg)

Bob

--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN

#6

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Is the defect you speak of the direction of the switch? Down should be open (off), no?

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

#7

Originally Posted By: roconnor
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bbadger wrote:
Heres an FPE switch ... there is a major defect

Hmmmm ... I'm assuming ya don't mean the usual rule of up is "on" for breakers per NEC 240.81, as the switch operates rotationally and is clearly labeled ... or maybe I am missing something. do tell.

jpope wrote:
FPE breakers are not listed for two wires and probably shouldn't be listed for even one wire.

Very true ... ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif) ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong
#8

Originally Posted By: dhadler
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position in case of accidental turn on if someone was working on the building/system and not in plain site icon_question.gif

–
Darrell Hadler


Five Star Home Inspections


Medicine Hat, Alberta CANADA

#9

Originally Posted By: Kyle Kubs
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Jeff,


I’ve seen zinsco panels mentioned here in the same context as FPE several times, and was wondering what the issues are with them. Here in North Jersey you never see them. I saw my first one when I visited my brother in Florida this past summer. He had just bought a new house and was told there were a few “minor issues” with the main panel and three subpanels. When I got there I took a look at them, the main was a Zinsco, subs were GE. Besides the fact that his inspector missed several Major items in the panels, I didn’t like the looks of several things on the Zinsco. Between that and no other good way to solve the sub panel problems, I spent two days of my vacation replacing the Zinsco, two of the older subs, and the feeders to the subs. Just what vacations are for…

–
Those that say it cannot be done should stop interupting those of us who are hard at work, doing it…

#10

Originally Posted By: Joey D’Adamo
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I know one issue with Zinsco panels is that some of them have aluminum busbars and the formation of oxidation on them can create high resistance connections.


I believe there also may have been problems with failure to trip, but i'm nto 100% sure on that one. The only one I know for sure is the issues with the aluminum busses.

#11

Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Quote:
Needless to say, the homeowner did not like me


Well Jeff, we don't like you either but we do agree with you! ![icon_lol.gif](upload://zEgbBCXRskkCTwEux7Bi20ZySza.gif)

--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz
#12

Originally Posted By: jpope
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Thanks for your support Joe icon_wink.gif

–
Jeff Pope


JPI Home Inspection Service


“At JPI, we’ll help you look better”


(661) 212-0738

#13

Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jeff,


I was hoping that you would change your mind about running for the MAB. Nothing like throwing in a few compliments to make you feel welcome! ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

--
Joe Myers
A & N Inspections, Inc.
http://anii.biz

#14

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Jeff … for whatever it’s worth, I would vote for ya as an MAB candidate.


Bob ... my reference from the model codes on allowing the "on" position to be as shown for a switch that opperates rotationally would be NEC 230.77 or 404.7

You have got me going here as I dont see the obvious hazard or concern about that install. Do tell.

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong

#15

Originally Posted By: bbadger
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


OK The switch I posted is upside down.


It is an interesting point about how it operates 'Rotationally' but I have never seen that applied to lever switches like this.

When I see the 'Rotationally' exception used it is usual with a round knob, very common on equipment constructed with IEC parts and not NEMA parts. Any switch rotates about an axis even a simple light switch. Once you add a lever IMO it must be down for off.

Anyway once we open the switch it becomes apparent it is upside down.

Someone took the time to turn over the labels on the out side of the box.

![](upload://kMF3MuY4aCDqzmBVCztvrjOgNR8.jpeg)

Quote:
404.7 Indicating.
General-use and motor-circuit switches, circuit breakers, and molded case switches, where mounted in an enclosure as described in 404.3, shall clearly indicate whether they are in the open (off) or closed (on) position.
Where these switch or circuit breaker handles are operated vertically rather than rotationally or horizontally, the up position of the handle shall be the (on) position.

Exception: Vertically operated double-throw switches shall be permitted to be in the closed (on) position with the handle in either the up or down position.


--
Bob Badger
Electrical Construction & Maintenance
Moderator at ECN
#16

Originally Posted By: roconnor
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


bbadger wrote:
The switch I posted is upside down ... Someone took the time to turn over the labels on the out side of the box.

Ya had me going cause something was rubbing me the wrong way, but I couldn't put my finger on it. Makes sense now ... ![icon_cool.gif](upload://oPnLkqdJc33Dyf2uA3TQwRkfhwd.gif)

An upside down switch is a defect ... but I wouldn't consider just the handle position alone to be a defect, since it really operates "rotationally" ... and not "vertically" for the "up in ON" provision to kick in. Individual mileage may vary depending on the POV ...

My understanding of the "up is ON" rule for switches/breakers that operate vertically relates to the label possibly reading "NO" (which could be mistaken for "off") when it's actually in the "ON" position if installed upside down. Also, people tend to expect that when they switch a breaker down it will shut down power. On that issue it's borderline, and I see the point ... I just wouldn't consider that a model code requirement reading the applicable sections.

--
Robert O'Connor, PE
Eagle Engineering ?
Eagle Eye Inspections ?
NACHI Education Committee

I am absolutely amazed sometimes by how much thought goes into doing things wrong