Jobs go to the lowest bidder. That’s the answer to why a lot of things are done the way they are in new construction.
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This is a case where you can’t rely on the NEC. So many states disagree with the NFPA on the GFCI approach, that you really have to check locally.
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And an even better case as to why home inspectors shouldn’t be trying to tow the line of code inspectors. It’s just not possible for one individual to know all the codes across all the years of houses we inspect, across all jurisdictions.
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No. Actually, fires start in kitchens more often than any other area. That’s a verifiable statistic. It is also consistent with my personal experience. I am an electrical expert, but many of the fires I have investigated have had causes other than electrical. I have been the lead investigator on many fires that that were not electrical because the origin was unknown but initially suspected to be electrical. Many of them have been fires that started in kitchens. Clothes dryer fires are also more common than garage fires.
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So are garages the 3rd leading area where fires start?
That’s right! I have been preaching this for years. I’ve have known many very intelligent and knowledgeable people, but I have never known anyone who knows every building code, in every jurisdiction, and how they were interpreted spanning a couple hundred years. As inspectors, our primary job is to assess a home’s condition, not to determine whether any part of it conformed to any particular code when it was built.
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Yeah.
But.
I’m calling out lack of GFCI devices near sinks on pure safety grounds, not code grounds.
Maybe that meets your definition.
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George, I agree whole-heartedly. I never refer to codes in a report, but use those codes for my understanding of building principles and safety. This kind of devolved into a code-compliance discussion, but in the original, my concern was that GFCI’s on a lighting circuit would cause the lights to go out in a bedroom, living room, and bath circuits if tripped. Why? Because code doesn’t say it CAN’T be done. And since it’s not a code violation, builder will never change it.
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You’re correct that the two (code and safety) are tied together. You do not have to quote the code to have an opinion as to whether or not something is safe. As you’ve mentioned when your opinion differs from the code, which is a minimum standard, then you’re on your own to defend your opinion. A builder is going to say exactly what you’ve stated that the installation is code compliant and your opinion doesn’t matter.
So, one has to wonder, is it the location or the appliance that is the predominate cause of fires in a home?
Note: I have lived in six different states from the Midwest to the West Coast. Areas with Basements typically locate their laundry rooms in the basements, thus Slab-on-Grade/Crawlspaces usually locate them in the garage.
Curious what the Fire Marshall stats are on that?
Then there’s the Electric vs Gas Range debate!
Oh yeah - I wasn’t meaning to say you are wrong… I just take a very simple approach - wet areas should have GFCI, regardless of year built or jurisdiction. Things like GFIs and smoke detectors are just so easy to retrofit into any house and they offer so much “bang for the buck” it’s just a no-brainer to have a house updated to include them, regardless of what any code of jurisdiction says.
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There are a lot of fires caused by faulty appliances. There’s more of a concentration of appliances in kitchens than other areas of a home. However, a lot of kitchen fires are are cooking related. I am not a Cause and Origin (C&O) investigator (though I have the same training as a C&O investigator), but sometimes if an adjuster suspected the fire to be electrical or if the insured claimed it was an electrical fire, the insurance company would send me instead of a C&O investigator. I did a lot of kitchen fire investigations where I effectively acted as a C&O investigator.
Toasters and toaster ovens are a major cause of fires. It isn’t always because the appliance is faulty or the user did something irresponsible. There are usually more multi-wire branch circuits in kitchens than elsewhere in a house. Loss of neutral is a major cause of electrical fires. The relationship between Voltage and temperature is quadratic. In other words a small increase in Voltage will result in a large increase in temperature. Pop Tarts are often cited as being a leading cause of fires. That’s true, but a significant percentage of Pop Tart fires are the result of the loss of the neutral in a MWBC.
It is because of the prevalence of MWBCs in kitchens that an electrical investigator will be called in for almost every kitchen fire.
One of the most common causes of kitchen fires is people leaving something on a stove, walking away, and forgetting that they had something on a burner. One of the jobs I did as a consultant, not as an investigator, was for a woman I had known my whole life. She and her husband hired me because they were in a dispute with the disaster relief company that the insurance company had recommended. The husband had put something on the stove and went into the living room to watch a football game. He had had a few beers and fell asleep, which he freely admitted. I haven’t heard from them in a few years. I sometimes wonder if they are still married.
I had one where the home owner insisted that the electric range was faulty. The insurance company decided to have me go in without a C&O investigator. It was obvious that the fire started at the electric range. I took the range back to the lab to examine it. The first thing I saw was that the top lifted up and there was an obvious path where oil had gone between the top and the top of the oven compartment, which was a space of a couple inches. There was also melted aluminum in that space. The control knobs were completely melted so it wasn’t possible to see where the temperature had been set. I carefully chipped away at the melted knob and saw where the flat side of the shaft was positioned. The knob had been set on the highest temperature setting. It was hot enough that it melted the bottom of an aluminum pot that was filled with oil for deep frying. The home owner had turned the temperature up and had left the kitchen.
Sometimes, the appliance is defective. Ni-chrome wires are used for heating elements. Their length is critical because the length will determine how much current will flow and the temperature. If the length is effectively shortened in a toaster or toaster oven because the element touches another part of the element, the temperature can be well beyond the intended temperature, but the current flow may still be insufficient to cause the breaker to trip. Anything with oil or sugar in it is a potential fuel source.
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That’s a legitimate concern. I don’t make many recommendations for enhancements, but GFCIs are a notable exception. I tell customers that they are probably the best investment they can make. The benefits far outweigh the cost. A good builder will tell the electrical contractor to use some common sense.
Sub-contractors, including the electrical contractor, usually submit a fixed bid. A good GC will insist that the electrical contractor use some common sense when laying out the circuits. Sub-contractors for new construction usually rely heavily on GCs for work. The GC has almost nothing to lose by making reasonable demands of sub-contractors.
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The predominant cause of residential fires is unattended cooking. The stove is certainly involved but the fuel is food and grease!
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