# GFCI under sink **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [October 21, 2015, 10:44pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040 "2015-10-21T22:44:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:14pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/21 "2015-12-02T15:14:07Z")
> [@dandersen](#): > > I want to see where it is a requirement to upgrade a house to existing standards. > > The 2014 code has nothing to do with my house the way it is. Not necessarily an upgrade, but the NEC has required gfi’s to be installed when a receptacle is changed that would currently require gfi protection for years. The same is also applicable for receptacle replacements on circuits that now require afci protection. Actually the 2014 does have something to do with your house the way it is. Suppose the receptacle under the sink is replaced. By code you would now need to add the gfi protection to the current requirements. A worn out receptacle that is loose from the constant plugging and unplugging of the vacuum is replaced. Again, by code, afci protection is now required. ---
**Author:** ![btoye](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/btoye/32/58400_2.png) [@btoye](https://forum.nachi.org/u/btoye)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2015, 3:18pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/22 "2015-12-02T15:18:42Z")
State adoptions of the NEC…some states are a little behind. [https://www.nema.org/Technical/FieldReps/Documents/Combined-NEC-Adoption-Report-No-IRC.pdf](https://www.nema.org/Technical/FieldReps/Documents/Combined-NEC-Adoption-Report-No-IRC.pdf) ---
**Author:** ![dbowers](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dbowers/32/59651_2.png) [@dbowers](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dbowers)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:24am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/23 "2015-12-03T05:24:53Z")
Not required by OUR codes Pain in A ss to get to … therefore few people do. Plus we never recommend plugging appliances into a GFCI outlet / nuisance tripping. Could go on but won’t. ---
**Author:** ![dandersen](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dandersen/32/59398_2.png) [@dandersen](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dandersen)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 5:28am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/24 "2015-12-03T05:28:14Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > Not necessarily an upgrade, but the NEC has required gfi’s to be installed when a receptacle is changed that would currently require gfi protection for years. The same is also applicable for receptacle replacements on circuits that now require afci protection. > > Actually the 2014 does have something to do with your house the way it is. Suppose the receptacle under the sink is replaced. By code you would now need to add the gfi protection to the current requirements. A worn out receptacle that is loose from the constant plugging and unplugging of the vacuum is replaced. Again, by code, afci protection is now required. The 2014 code has nothing to do with my house\*\*\* the way it is.\*\*\* ---
**Author:** ![sstanczyk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/sstanczyk/32/175851_2.png) [@sstanczyk](https://forum.nachi.org/u/sstanczyk)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 6:35am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/25 "2015-12-03T06:35:09Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > Not necessarily an upgrade, but the NEC has required gfi’s to be installed when a receptacle is changed that would currently require gfi protection for years. The same is also applicable for receptacle replacements on circuits that now require afci protection. > > Actually the 2014 does have something to do with your house the way it is. Suppose the receptacle under the sink is replaced. By code you would now need to add the gfi protection to the current requirements. A worn out receptacle that is loose from the constant plugging and unplugging of the vacuum is replaced. Again, by code, afci protection is now required. Jim, Do you have the section of the 2014 NEC with the changed receptacle must be GFCI requirement? Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 1:37pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/26 "2015-12-03T13:37:01Z")
> [@dbowers](#): > > Not required by OUR codes > > Pain in A ss to get to … therefore few people do. > > Plus we never recommend plugging appliances into a GFCI outlet / nuisance tripping. > > Could go on but won’t. So where do you recommend people power their kitchen and bathroom appliances from? An extension cord from the bedroom? Drop the nuisance tripping train of thought. If it trips there is a problem. The UL standard of allowable leakage current is about 1/10th of the level the gfi trips at. Very confused about why you discourage the use of required life safety equipment that has been in use for several decades. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 1:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/27 "2015-12-03T13:41:15Z")
Jim. We are not inspecting a home to provide more work for the trades. Every inspector has to decide when and when not to report current code issues while being aware of their state mandates for inspecting. It’s a judgement call. We all have to do it. You are asking that every home be brought up to the current cycle. That’s not going to happen. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:04pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/28 "2015-12-03T14:04:38Z")
No Michael, in fact I have more of an issue with an HI that writes something up and has no idea of what the code requirements are but writes something up anyway. This now costs the HO money unnecessarily to refute a bogus “defect” or to rollover and pay to have it “fixed” so the sale goes through. I don’t expect an HI to write up things to generate work for electricians. I would hope they would be an unbiased advocate for the buyers. Here we have an HI telling people not to use life safety equipment with a several decades long proven track record. This seems counter to the majority of HI’s here that call out the lack of gfi protection, even if it was not required when installed. > [@](#): > > Every inspector has to decide when and when not to report current code issues. It’s a judgement call. We all have to do it. Isn’t this what the standards of practice are designed to address and provide guidance on? If not what is the point of having an industry association to provide certification if the inspection process can be all over the place? Are you saying the lack of safety equipment is only an issue on some Tuesdays or based on the price of the house? TREC seems to differ when they REQUIRE the lack of afci protection to be noted even if the house was built before the Alamo. I thought the premise of a home inspection was to inform the buyers of potential issues and let them decide if they were willing to accept the conditions and had the budget for corrections. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:09pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/29 "2015-12-03T14:09:44Z")
> [@dandersen](#): > > The 2014 code has nothing to do with my house\*\*\* the way it is.\*\*\* Excuse me, I should have said the 2014 has the potential to affect your house, although some of the requirements have been in the codes for many cycles. The code has just expanded to have a greater potential impact. but based on some posts it does not seem like some HI’s care about code requirements. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:11pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/30 "2015-12-03T14:11:14Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > No Michael, in fact I have more of an issue with an HI that writes something up and has no idea of what the code requirements are but writes something up anyway. This now costs the HO money unnecessarily to refute a bogus “defect” or to rollover and pay to have it “fixed” so the sale goes through. I don’t expect an HI to write up things to generate work for electricians. I would hope they would be an unbiased advocate for the buyers. > > Here we have an HI telling people not to use life safety equipment with a several decades long proven track record. This seems counter to the majority of HI’s here that call out the lack of gfi protection, even if it was not required when installed. > > Isn’t this what the standards of practice are designed to address and provide guidance on? If not what is the point of having an industry association to provide certification if the inspection process can be all over the place? Are you saying the lack of safety equipment is only an issue on some Tuesdays or based on the price of the house? TREC seems to differ when they REQUIRE the lack of afci protection to be noted even if the house was built before the Alamo. I thought the premise of a home inspection was to inform the buyers of potential issues and let them decide if they were willing to accept the conditions and had the budget for corrections. I suppose I could shorten my reports and simply say hire and electrician and carpenter and a roofer and a plumber and HVAC contractor to bring all systems up to code for reasons of safety. We are not required by ANY SOP to function as code inspectors. I routinely call out lack of GFCIs at kitchens bathrooms, garages and outdoors regardless of the age of the home. I care about my clients safety. ---
**Author:** ![rcleland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rcleland/32/60068_2.png) [@rcleland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rcleland)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:19pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/31 "2015-12-03T14:19:34Z")
> [@mlarson](#): > > You will find this chart helpful. Compiled by Jerry Peck adn update in May of 2015 > > [http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/Other%20Items/\_GFCI\_requirement\_page-2014.pdf](http://jerrypeck.com/IFCN/Other%20Items/_GFCI_requirement_page-2014.pdf) > > Pay attention to the foot notes. By any chance is there a pdf of AFCI requirements like this? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:21pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/32 "2015-12-03T14:21:25Z")
I realize an HI is not a code inspector, but was confused by some advising against proven safety technology. It seemed that some HI’s would note that the home did not meet the latest code requirement and let the buyer decide if this was an issue or allow them to budget or negotiate repairs with the sellers. It is unreasonable to expect a home on be able to stay current with ever evolving codes and changing technology. > [@](#): > > I routinely call out lack of GFCIs at kitchens bathrooms, garages and outdoors regardless of the age of the home. I care about my clients safety. These are the things I expected to see. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/33 "2015-12-03T14:24:17Z")
> [@rcleland](#): > > By any chance is there a pdf of AFCI requirements like this? Not that I am aware of. ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/34 "2015-12-03T14:25:21Z")
> [@rcleland](#): > > By any chance is there a pdf of AFCI requirements like this? It would not be hard to compile. The requirements started in the 1999 code with bedroom receptacles. It expanded into bedroom outlets and from there into many living areas of the home. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:25pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/35 "2015-12-03T14:25:24Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > I realize an HI is not a code inspector, but was confused by some advising against proven safety technology. It seemed that some HI’s would note that the home did not meet the latest code requirement and let the buyer decide if this was an issue or allow them to budget or negotiate repairs with the sellers. It is unreasonable to expect a home on be able to stay current with ever evolving codes and changing technology. > > These are the things I expected to see. I also do not call out the lack of fire suppression sprinklers. Do you think I should? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/36 "2015-12-03T14:42:35Z")
I don’t see how that is much different than citing the lack of gfi or afci protection. It is just a safety feature they home is lacking, albeit, an expensive retrofit. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:45pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/37 "2015-12-03T14:45:30Z")
> [@Jim\_Port](#): > > I don’t see how that is much different than citing the lack of gfi or afci protection. It is just a safety feature they home is lacking, albeit, an expensive retrofit. Because you did not answer directly, would you as a home inspector call out the lack of fire sprinklers? ---
**Author:** ![Jim\_Port](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/bc8723/32.png) [@Jim\_Port](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Jim_Port)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/38 "2015-12-03T14:55:44Z")
I believe I would. Why would an HI only list some of the items lacking? ---
**Author:** ![btoye](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/btoye/32/58400_2.png) [@btoye](https://forum.nachi.org/u/btoye)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:08pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/39 "2015-12-03T15:08:04Z")
> [@rcleland](#): > > By any chance is there a pdf of AFCI requirements like this? Jerry Peck did one for AFCI too. ---
**Author:** ![mlarson](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mlarson/32/89225_2.png) [@mlarson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mlarson)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2015, 3:16pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040/40 "2015-12-03T15:16:10Z")
> [@btoye](#): > > Jerry Peck did one for AFCI too. Thanks. [Previous page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/gfci-under-sink/101040.md?page=3)