Since I get this question often Maybe I can make it into a poll. What do you write on you four points for GFCIs.
Which code and more specifically, which edition?
Go with NEC 2008
Mostly we only require that existing GFCI devices operate properly - We don’t require them to be in all locations stated in the 2008 NEC.
Nothing, I do not mention them.
There was no mention of them in the form I received from State Farm when I started doing them.
No insurance company has ever asked me to include them EVER.
Sinks, lavs and any wet (exterior, laundry tub etc…) areas
What about, pools, patios, and garages?
The inspection is being done 2011, the form is reading, GFCI present were req, therefore the answer should reflect were they are req. Wet areas; pool, jacuzzi, patio and garages. Never had one turned down for answering no, which is the majority
I only state the amps, panel brand, year updated, and condition. If anything is not right with the system (GFCI’s are not considered) it gets a “below average”.
Neither have I…
The next poll should ask are AFCI receptacles present where required? 2008 NEC now requires all receptacles that are below 60" in height and not required to be GFCI protected too be tamper proof and AFCI protected.
I don’t see a clear way to answer the question on the 4 Point as to whether ‘GFCI’s present where required?’.
If a home was built before GFCI req.'s were adopted in a particular community for a particular location in it and there were no electrical upgrade since then I would think they were not required for purposes of a 4 Point. If I state that they were ‘not found where required’ that would trigger a deficiency at the end of the report requiring resolution. If I state a deficiency and there is none my report is wrong and my client must act when not required or may suffer an insurability lapse. However, if I say GFCI’s ‘were found where required’ but they weren’t at all required locations and an unprotected circuit caused harm I would think the insurance company and the owner would hold me liable.
I would think think that stating where they were found and how they tested should be stated in the “GFCI’s present where required?” section and where they should be needs to be stated in the electrical comments section because irrespective of whether they were required I need to advise the homeowner (my client) of the prudence of installing them.
I’d appreciate input since I am unable to find when GFCI requirements were adopted in Port St. Lucie Florida, what I found in a 1979 home was that the original construction did not include GFCI’s, and I don’t want to cause my client any undue expense or lapse in insurance coverage.
You should write your own form and include what you feel is right and needed. They were never mentioned on the forms I was given from insurance agents when I first started doing them. I was given the forms to use as an example of what they wanted from me. Citizens has decided to make up their own B u l l s h i t form. When folks want that one I do what is required and charge much more than I do for what i call a standard 4 point inspection A “non citizens 4 point”. Which is what I was asked to provide by insurance agents requesting 4 point inspections. I now add photos of everything I look at without labeling them to avoid hassel and show what I looked at. It works for me.
Please update your profile to show your location. Which areas do you cover?
A slippery slope indeed. Mike probably had the best advice as the codes are constantly changing GFCI and AFCI should not be a part of report.It is my understanding that most if not all Insurers ignore GFCI & AFCI unless it is called out as a hazard.
I am including below the dates that GFCI protection was adopted and for what areas by the NEC.
homes as follows:
1968 - Swimming Pool Underwater Lighting
1971 - Receptacles Near Swimming Pools
1973 - Outdoor Receptacles
1975 - Bathroom Receptacles
1978 - Garage Receptacles
1981 - Whirlpools and Tubs
1987 - Receptacles Near Kitchen Sinks
1990 - Receptacles in Unfinished Basements and Crawl Spaces
1993 - Receptacles Near Wet Bar Sinks
1996 - All Kitchen Counter-Top Receptacles
2005 - Receptacles Near Laundry and Utility Sinks
I don’t know if all municipalities/governments accepted NEC codes at the same time they were issued by NEC. I was thinking that maybe Fla and/or Port St Lucie hadn’t adopted NEC for GFCI’s when NEC issued them. I can’t see how this tract house wouldn’t have had them in new construction and get a CO if the requirement was in the Building Code for the City at the time. What am I missing?
I don’t concern myself with GFCI’s any longer. I have had several agents tell me they are not concerned with them. In fact, the updated Citizens form makes no mention of it. I’ve modeled my form after theirs so I’ve dropped the GFCI question altogether. I still photograph them and keep the pictures in case it ever surfaces. Hasn’t yet. I don’t endorse anyone doing it this way or not but, it’s worked fine in my case.
I don’t comment on them. More than likely, you put on the form in a 1975 home with all original wiring and outlets that there are no GFCI’s in kitchens and baths as a deficiency, the underwriter will demand they be put in or not write the policy. The goal is to provide information on the house to make sure the house is in good condition and there are not hazards in existence at the time the policy is wrote that would give way to an insurance claim, the 2 most frequent of which are 1) water damage and 2) roof damage, dog bites are up there as well nowadays.