# Grounds and neutrals sharing bus bars **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [November 23, 2019, 1:52pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161 "2019-11-23T13:52:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 5:51pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/22 "2019-11-24T17:51:41Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > Thanks for the explanation, Robert. That helps me understand it better. I know that George is a big critic of the use of the word floating and I agree with him. If your system has a grounded conductor or neutral within that system it cannot be floating. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 5:55pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/23 "2019-11-24T17:55:31Z")
> [@rmeier2](#): > > I know that George is a big critic of the use of the word floating and I agree with him. If your system has a grounded conductor or neutral within that system it cannot be floating Again, thank you for helping it be clearer in my mind, and hopefully others, too. šŸ˜„ ---
**Author:** ![mparks2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mparks2/32/172915_2.png) [@mparks2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mparks2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 9:19pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/24 "2019-11-24T21:19:35Z")
Can you say separated? Odds are that they are electrically connected somewhere after the first disconnect. ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 9:37pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/25 "2019-11-24T21:37:01Z")
Why they be connected _after_ the service disconnect? ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 9:57pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/26 "2019-11-24T21:57:21Z")
> [@mparks2](#): > > Can you say separated? Yes, Michael I can say **separated**. You come across as bumptious. But, thatā€™s not new, now is it. šŸ™„ ---
**Author:** ![mparks2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mparks2/32/172915_2.png) [@mparks2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mparks2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:34pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/27 "2019-11-24T22:34:10Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > bumptious Trying reading the words. Not into the words. > [@rmeier2](#): > > Why they be connected _after_ the service disconnect? Mis wiring. That is why isolated/floating are misleading. Saying that they are separated is a fact. Isolated/floating may or may not be true. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:36pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/28 "2019-11-24T22:36:01Z")
> [@mparks2](#): > > Trying reading the words. Not into the words. Yup, bumptiousā€¦ Maybe you could try to be less full of yourself. šŸ™„ ---
**Author:** ![mparks2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mparks2/32/172915_2.png) [@mparks2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mparks2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:43pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/29 "2019-11-24T22:43:29Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > full of yourself. Arenā€™t all good inspectors? ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:45pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/30 "2019-11-24T22:45:17Z")
> [@mparks2](#): > > Arenā€™t all good inspectors? Arrogant?..no, Michael. All good inspectors are not arrogant, pushy, self-important, conceited, pompous, overbearing, etc. . šŸ™„ ---
**Author:** ![mparks2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/mparks2/32/172915_2.png) [@mparks2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mparks2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 10:47pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/31 "2019-11-24T22:47:33Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > All good inspectors are not arrogant Most of them that I know are. Worse than attorneys. ---
**Author:** ![rmeier2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rmeier2/32/59909_2.png) [@rmeier2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rmeier2)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:39pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/32 "2019-11-24T23:39:00Z")
The more that I think about using the word _floating_ is just terrible. George is on to something, even when I search for a definition of the word that would relate to this application I cannot find one. _Floating_ would need to be synonymous with _not connected_ to before it would actually make sense to use the word _floating_ in this context. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 24, 2019, 11:55pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/33 "2019-11-24T23:55:50Z")
> [@rmeier2](#): > > The more that I think about using the word _floating_ is just terrible. George is on to something, even when I search for a definition of the word that would relate to this application I cannot find one. _Floating_ would need to be synonymous with _not connected_ to before it would actually make sense to use the word _floating_ in this context Thanks, Robert. That makes sense and helps me, and others Iā€™m sure, grasp why _floating_ is not a good description and, Michael, _separated_ makes sense, too. Thank you. ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 12:56am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/34 "2019-11-25T00:56:36Z")
> [@crobbins](#): > > grounds and neutrals should never share bus bars I wish to get de-con-fused as well. At the service panel (ONLY AT THE SERVICE PANEL - HUGELY IMPORTANT) **the neutral bus bar** ā€˜is bondedā€™ to ground. That is a different read than saying circuit neutrals and circuit ground conductors can share the same point of termination on a bus bar. Or at least to me. ---
**Author:** ![jmilby](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jmilby/32/57038_2.png) [@jmilby](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jmilby)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:32am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/35 "2019-11-25T01:32:12Z")
The neutrals and grounds can only terminate on the same bar in a service panel or a panel only fed by three conductors in a detached outbuilding. There are additional considerations to the outbuilding like no metallic paths etc. This exception was removed under the 2008 NEC. Now outbuildings need a 4 wire feeder. ---
**Author:** ![ryoung7](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/ryoung7/32/188798_2.png) [@ryoung7](https://forum.nachi.org/u/ryoung7)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:55am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/36 "2019-11-25T01:55:48Z")
> [@jmilby](#): > > neutrals and grounds can only terminate on the same bar If the main service panel happens to be the **same** place that the grounded ( **neutral** ) conductor is bonded to the grounding electrode, then there is no problem mixing **grounds** and **neutrals** on the **same** bus **bar** (as long as there is an appropriate number of conductors terminated under each lug). ---
**Author:** ![srechkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/srechkin/32/180448_2.png) [@srechkin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/srechkin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/37 "2019-11-25T01:58:44Z")
the point of bonding neutral in service panel is not to connect it to the grounding electrode. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 1:58am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/38 "2019-11-25T01:58:45Z")
> [@mparks2](#): > > Can you say separated? Odds are that they are electrically connected somewhere after the first disconnect. > [@lkage](#): > > Chris, the only place where the grounded (neutral) conductors and the grounding (bare grounds) conductors can share a bus is in the 1st (and only) service disconnect after the meter. That may be a single breaker panel board outside next to the meter or inside. All other panel boards after the service disconnect are distribution panel boards and need to have the grounding and grounded wire **separated** with the grounded conductors \_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_\_ (not bonded to the panel board) and the grounding (bare wires) bonded to each panel board. > > I hope this is helpful. šŸ˜„ Michael, look what word I used in my description bolded above. I removed ā€œfloatingā€ where I underlined when I edited my post but ā€œseparatedā€ was in there all along. šŸ˜„ ---
**Author:** ![srechkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/srechkin/32/180448_2.png) [@srechkin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/srechkin)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/39 "2019-11-25T02:00:24Z")
@lkage, Iā€™m holding you accountable, you started all of this! You had to use the trigger word! šŸ¤Ø ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:02am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/40 "2019-11-25T02:02:48Z")
> [@srechkin](#): > > @lkage, Iā€™m holding you accountable, you started all of this! You had to use the trigger word!. šŸ¤Ø Yeah, Simon, I just wish that there was some ā€œpowā€ after the triggerā€¦šŸ¤Ŗ ---
**Author:** ![gwells](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gwells/32/417638_2.png) [@gwells](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gwells)\ **Post date:** [November 25, 2019, 2:14am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161/41 "2019-11-25T02:14:24Z")
No. Isolated is another electrical term that is often misused by home inspectors. [Previous page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161.md?page=1) [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/grounds-and-neutrals-sharing-bus-bars/158161.md?page=3)