# Helical Piers vs Push Piers **URL:** \ **Category:** Structural Inspections\ **Created:** [October 31, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511 "2007-10-31T20:41:46Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 8:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/1 "2007-10-31T20:41:46Z")
Some may remember my past post(s) concerning my own foundation settlement issue. I’ve finally got off my rear end and got estimates from 3 foundation companies. I have it narrowed down to two. One recommends six helical piers while the other recommends 7 steel push piers. What are your opinions of the two? Give me the good, bad and ugly 😉 Oh, price wise they are real close to one another based on price per pier. Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![escanlan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/escanlan/32/57038_2.png) [@escanlan](https://forum.nachi.org/u/escanlan)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:27pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/2 "2007-10-31T22:27:54Z")
Robert, Can you provide links to their WEB sites so that we can view their pier offerings? As for steel push piers I would not recommend them to anyone. Steel likes to rust and even if coated you can expect the coating to wear during installation. Push piers are not very good for active soils as there is always the potential of them being pushed/squeezed upward. This has been a problem with expansive soils and push piers. Yes most helical piers are steel but at least they offer some of the characteristics of belled and poured concrete piers. Here is one interesting site for helical piers: [http://www.helicalpierworld.com/](http://www.helicalpierworld.com/) Whatever you do, if you use any steel in piers also make sure they are using primary steel of the proper gauge. There are some foundation repair companies out there who are using cheap secondary steel in their piers. These tend to fail and corrode quickly. ---
**Author:** ![bkelly2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bkelly2/32/58257_2.png) [@bkelly2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bkelly2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/3 "2007-10-31T22:41:10Z")
Many foundation repair companies offer a lifetime transferable guarantee. Almost better than the original foundation. Is [Ram Jack](http://www.ramjackfoundationsolutions.com/about/index.html) in your neck of the woods? ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:42pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/4 "2007-10-31T22:42:21Z")
> [@escanlan](#): > > Robert, > > Can you provide links to their WEB sites so that we can view their pier offerings? > > As for steel push piers I would not recommend them to anyone. Steel likes to rust and even if coated you can expect the coating to wear during installation. Push piers are not very good for active soils as there is always the potential of them being pushed/squeezed upward. This has been a problem with expansive soils and push piers. > > Yes most helical piers are steel but at least they offer some of the characteristics of belled and poured concrete piers. Here is one interesting site for helical piers: > > [http://www.helicalpierworld.com/](http://www.helicalpierworld.com/) > > Whatever you do, if you use any steel in piers also make sure they are using primary steel of the proper gauge. There are some foundation repair companies out there who are using cheap secondary steel in their piers. These tend to fail and corrode quickly. Here we go… [www.trottercompany.com](http://www.trottercompany.com) and [www.anglinsfoundationrepairs.com](http://www.anglinsfoundationrepairs.com) ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:48pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/5 "2007-10-31T22:48:26Z")
> [@bkelly2](#): > > Many foundation repair companies offer a lifetime transferable guarantee. Almost better than the original foundation. Is Ram Jack in your neck of the woods? Not sure of Ram Jack but both companies give a lifetime transferable warranty. The helical company seemed more professional for what it’s worth. If I use them I’ll have to hire a seperate brick mason to do the cosmetic repairs. The steel pier company provides the brick repair along with the piers. ---
**Author:** ![bkelly2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bkelly2/32/58257_2.png) [@bkelly2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bkelly2)\ **Post date:** [October 31, 2007, 10:57pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/6 "2007-10-31T22:57:11Z")
Lifetime warranty, sounds good. Check references and good luck. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_A.Hetzel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8edcca/32.png) [@Richard\_A.Hetzel](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Richard_A.Hetzel)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 12:56am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/7 "2007-11-01T00:56:23Z")
Lifetime warranties are only as good as the longevity of the companies that issue them, Read them carefully, or better yet, have them read by someone who won’t just read what he or she wants to read, and preferably someone who is very familiar with construction, so they can tell you what could happen that won’t be covered. To me, a lifetime warranty is an invitation to mistrust. Do the homework. ---
**Author:** ![bkelly2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bkelly2/32/58257_2.png) [@bkelly2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bkelly2)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 3:19am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/8 "2007-11-01T03:19:04Z")
> [@Richard A. Hetzel](#): > > Lifetime warranties are only as good as the longevity of the companies that issue them, Read them carefully, or better yet, have them read by someone who won’t just read what he or she wants to read, and preferably someone who is very familiar with construction, so they can tell you what could happen that won’t be covered. To me, a lifetime warranty is an invitation to mistrust. Do the homework. Of the two companies Robert listed they have both been in business since 1929 and 1930, at first look they seem reputable. ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 3:34am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/9 "2007-11-01T03:34:14Z")
> [@bkelly2](#): > > Of the two companies Robert listed they have both been in business since 1929 and 1930, at first look they seem reputable. I have one issue (other than the type of pier to go with) that is sticking in my crawl… the steel push pier company (foreman) originally suggested 15 piers and later suggested 7 piers. It’s the only thing that put a bad taste in my mouth about the company. Otherwise, they are highly rated and have the added benefit of also doing the masonry repairs. ---
**Author:** ![badair](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/badair/32/166699_2.png) [@badair](https://forum.nachi.org/u/badair)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 11:22am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/10 "2007-11-01T11:22:22Z")
Robert, The company I have successfully used with many clients insists on incorporating a lifetime transferable warranty on all pier work, initial and final, third party engineering reports and final plumbing tests. Pressure test on supply and static on the drain. In the event you have questions about the number of and placement of the piers consult the engineer they are using. S/he should be able to address all questions to your satisfaction. ---
**Author:** ![escanlan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/escanlan/32/57038_2.png) [@escanlan](https://forum.nachi.org/u/escanlan)\ **Post date:** [November 1, 2007, 1:32pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/11 "2007-11-01T13:32:57Z")
> [@badair](#): > > Robert, > > The company I have successfully used with many clients insists on incorporating a lifetime transferable warranty on all pier work, initial and final, third party engineering reports and final plumbing tests. Pressure test on supply and static on the drain. > > In the event you have questions about the number of and placement of the piers consult the engineer they are using. S/he should be able to address all questions to your satisfaction. Barry, Good points and well worth having done! There are some good companies out there. Which company is this you speak of? Do the engineering reports contain before and after elevation readings as well? ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:05pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/12 "2007-12-01T19:05:14Z")
An update… I’m back on Terra Firma!!! I finally decided to go with a company that installed push piers (total of 7), made the needed brick/mortar repairs, and provided a lifetime transferrable warranty. They started at 10Am and completed the job at 9PM. No more sticking doors, cracks, etc. The crew was great and encouraged me to watch and learn. I was with them the entire day and learned a lot. I don’t wish this experience on anyone…but it was an education which will help me with future inspections…hmmm, wonder if I can get a few CE credits for that 😉 ---
**Author:** ![rcooke](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rcooke/32/57038_2.png) [@rcooke](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rcooke)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:13pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/13 "2007-12-01T19:13:10Z")
> [@rnewland](#): > > An update… I’m back on Terra Firma!!! I finally decided to go with a company that installed push piers (total of 7), made the needed brick/mortar repairs, and provided a lifetime transferrable warranty. They started at 10Am and completed the job at 9PM. No more sticking doors, cracks, etc. The crew was great and encouraged me to watch and learn. I was with them the entire day and learned a lot. I don’t wish this experience on anyone…but it was an education which will help me with future inspections…hmmm, wonder if I can get a few CE credits for that 😉 Hope you got lots of Pictures Glad for you . All the Best …Cookie ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:14pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/14 "2007-12-01T19:14:28Z")
> [@rnewland](#): > > An update… I’m back on Terra Firma!!! I finally decided to go with a company that installed push piers (total of 7), made the needed brick/mortar repairs, and provided a lifetime transferrable warranty. They started at 10Am and completed the job at 9PM. No more sticking doors, cracks, etc. The crew was great and encouraged me to watch and learn. I was with them the entire day and learned a lot. I don’t wish this experience on anyone…but it was an education which will help me with future inspections…hmmm, wonder if I can get a few CE credits for that 😉 Did you take any pics, Robert? I’m sure many would enjoy them.😉 ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:23pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/15 "2007-12-01T19:23:48Z")
I’m not sure if this will work but let’s see… [http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=569nst5.4iaonjmp&Uy=3hyu86&Upost\_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0](http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=569nst5.4iaonjmp&Uy=3hyu86&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0) ---
**Author:** ![phinsperger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/phinsperger/32/553_2.png) [@phinsperger](https://forum.nachi.org/u/phinsperger)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:31pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/16 "2007-12-01T19:31:25Z")
Hi Robert, Glad to hear you are happy with the work perfomed. If you wouldn’t mind sharing, what was the finnal bill for all 7? ---
**Author:** ![rnewland](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/rnewland/32/59431_2.png) [@rnewland](https://forum.nachi.org/u/rnewland)\ **Post date:** [December 1, 2007, 7:40pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/17 "2007-12-01T19:40:28Z")
I don’t mind at all because I had received eye popping guess-timates from several people in the range of $30-40k. The total bill was $8750.00. A few other written estimates I received were a little lower but there were additional charges if the piers went deeper than 20 ft ($25 per foot). My cost per pier did not have additional depth charges. I had a few go beyond the 20 ft mark. ---
**Author:** ![bdoles2](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/bdoles2/32/761_2.png) [@bdoles2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/bdoles2)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 1:18am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/18 "2007-12-02T01:18:45Z")
> [@rnewland](#): > > I’m not sure if this will work but let’s see… [http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=569nst5.4iaonjmp&Uy=3hyu86&Upost\_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0](http://www.kodakgallery.com/ShareLandingSignin.jsp?Uc=569nst5.4iaonjmp&Uy=3hyu86&Upost_signin=Slideshow.jsp%3Fmode%3Dfromshare&Ux=0) Nice work… ---
**Author:** ![phinsperger](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/phinsperger/32/553_2.png) [@phinsperger](https://forum.nachi.org/u/phinsperger)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2007, 10:17pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/19 "2007-12-02T22:17:31Z")
That seems like a very reasonable price to me ---
**Author:** ![john\_bubber](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/john_bubber/32/1747_2.png) [@john\_bubber](https://forum.nachi.org/u/john_bubber)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2007, 9:34am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511/20 "2007-12-03T09:34:05Z")
hope your situation works out and hope you actually needed piering, MANY homeowners are talked into piering or underpinning etc when its not necessary. also hope they waterproofed that one crack in bsmt wall, and any others on the…outside. if there were bricks atop of this retaining wall, what might they look like,huh? How would any piering help relieve-lessen SOIL pressure or roots? It can`t. -----scroll down to picture of retainning wall,HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE [http://www.ohiominesubsidence.com/Definitions.aspx](http://www.ohiominesubsidence.com/Definitions.aspx) cracks in basement walls often occur due to expanding/contracting soil pressure against the WALL and/or roots against the wall. some cracks occur around the time when home is built. cracks in BRICKS ABOVE the wall, especially above/near where there is a crack in the basement wall may subsequently follow as the soil continues to expand-contract with or without the help of roots. so YES, if/when a crack in BASEMENT wall occurs, or WIDENS then a homeowner may begin to see cracks in bricks…does NOT mean they automatically have a settling issue…BLLCHTTTTT! Doesn`t mean they need any sort of helical piering/underpinning etc…BLCCCHTTTT! The bricks can certainly crack,separate,widen because the crack in the basement wall occurred or the crack in bsmt wall is WIDENING and often is widening due to soil pressure and/or roots AGAINST the dang WALL!!! This is what we/i`ve witnessed…LEARNED, hands-on/up close for 3 decades. Have never sold 1 pier,never any wall anchoring bcllhtt, just a few underpinning instances…30 years…no homeowner complaints…hmmmm. some will own a home for many years/decades and not have any problems/cracks and then all of a sudden…bamm. too many HO`s begin to freak out when they see a crack in wall and/or in bricks, many ASSUME and/or are told their foundation is fallin` apart, hurry up and spend many thousands before your house/foundation is ruined. and just because a homeowner may receive several bids/opinions from from supposed foundation experts who tell the HO they need piers etc doesn`t mean chtt to me. Of course many, prolly MOST of these salespeople are going to make-their-case to the homeowner to sell, sell, sell. Its very possible for ram jacked piering/any piering to slip/drop if/when water-in-soil changes, jacking chtt around can cause-lead to other problems/cracks to other parts of house/walls/floor etc. LOOK… IF, IF,IF…there was a problem with the FOOTING, a cracked/separated/dropped footing…it would be VISIBLE on the outside when dug out. Digging out a few small areas to install PIERS doesn`t define the actual problem(s)…they are assuming, not defining. IF,IF,IF… a homeowner had other problem(s) then they may also see their basement FLOOR crack/drop, especially around-near a corner. See so-MANY get BS`d into piers when it ABSOLUTELY was NOT NEEDED! Ya know, quite a few of these self proclaimed foundation-waterproofing experts are incompetent, don`t have the many years of experience they advertise/tell ya they do, not talking about company you had. For instance, several companies around here who have been in business for 30 years STILL don`t understand several things, they don`t believe in hydrostatic SOIL-pressure and backfill with 1/2 or all of the same CLAY they dug out…some think its all about the freakin` DRAIN TILES, they actually think a basement wall can leak if any of the outside tiles are blocked/cracked…so sorry…Wrong! SHEESH!!! best of luck to ya! some links which mostly delve into the truth, not the BS. [http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo\_Library/Why\_Foundations\_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html](http://www.bobvila.com/HowTo_Library/Why_Foundations_Fail-Foundation-A2095.html) this next link…read… ‘footings’ and then read… ‘basement walls’…CAUSE and RESOLUTION. if there ISN`T a cracked/dropped footing but rather a crack(s) in basement wall then bricks could begin to crack/separate and THAT is many more HO`s problem. So again…assuming a HO needs piers when they DON`T KNOW if footing is cracked/dropped is PRETENTIOUS Bcllllllttttttttt!!! Hit it again…one may ONLY have a crack in basment wall and NOT need piering/underpinning etc. [http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/marineclay.htm#whatare](http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/dpwes/publications/marineclay.htm#whatare) [http://www.archicentre.com.au/survival\_kit/cracking\_brick.pdf](http://www.archicentre.com.au/survival_kit/cracking_brick.pdf) Agree with alot of this, not all. "If a crack appears overnight in your previosuly intact brick house, don`t panic. It is not the first step in the total disintegration of your whole home. Most cracks require cosmetic treatment only.The MAJORITY are NOT indictions of grave structural damage." “Unfortunately lack of knowledge can lead to the adoption of UNNECESSARILY expensive treatments which may be suggested by firms BIASED in favour of using their own patented and profitable ‘cures’.” [http://dwightyoderbuilders.com//concrete.cfm](http://dwightyoderbuilders.com//concrete.cfm) …" This type of drainage (gravel-peastone AGAINST the Basement Wall) prevents trapped water and saturated soil next to the foundation from building up HORIZONTAL HYDROSTATIC PRESSURE against the WALL. This pressure will crack walls, cause leaks, and in a worst case,collapse the wall INWARD" So those builders/contractors/city inspectors/SE`s who don`t understand this are INCOMPETENT! Better watch what SOME recommend. [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/helical-piers-vs-push-piers/21511.md?page=2)