help explain this

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#1

Originally Posted By: todd wright
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These wires go to an exterior shed. Ironically, we don’t own it because of the property being subdivided and we still pay for them to use the light which it feeds. It’s obviously a 2 wire system, maybe coming from my archaic panel. They just seem so exposed with no sheathing. Is it safe?


P.S. I was at home depot today and found a book called "Wiring Simplified" by H.P. Richter, W.C.Schwan, and F.P.Hartwell. It was $5 and looks like a great book for a newbie like me. Based on the 2002 NEC. Cheers

[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/I/IMG_0081.JPG ]

--
Todd Wright
toddswright@hotmail.com

#2

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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Why not just disconnect it?


This could be legal overhead circuit but they should have a grounding system at the shed and reground the neutral, assuming the shed has something that requires a ground. If this is simply a light in a plastic box it may not require a ground and I suppose they could use a GFCI to put in a receptacle ("no EGC sticker etc). It would also have to be the right kind of wire. The Romex feeding it is wrong.

#3

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Find the breaker that feeds those lines and shut it off. You don’t know what’s in there, but it could be drawing a substantial load even though it’s only a 120 volt circuit.


You are certainly not obligated to supply power to your neighbors.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#4

Originally Posted By: dedwards
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I agree with Jeff. Cut the thing off like a hang nail. Let your neighbor make his own arrangments for lighting in his shed. Besides, what if the shed burns down, do you become responsible somehow because you are providing the power. In the infamous words of Deputy Barnard Fife…Nip it…Nip it…Nip it now.

#5

Originally Posted By: todd wright
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No, I"m not obligated to supply them power. But it does get a little weird. When the land was subdivided, the shed went to their land (originally my land), but it’s a two story shed and they can’t access the lower half. When we moved in, the verbal agreement was that, we leave the power and we get the lower shed, and any storage man can’t pass that up. However, that all aside, you all are right and I will look for a means to disconnect. I never had this house inspected. Now that I’m interested in HI, I’m finding lots of electrical problems. Here’s the shed. More snow on the way in Colorado!


[ Image: http://www.nachi.org/bbsystem/usrimages/I/IMG_0082.JPG ]

--
Todd Wright
toddswright@hotmail.com

#6

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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What is this…can you tell what the rating would be?


It is a SquareD box but I'm not sure other than the obvious.![](upload://8KIp8OehIJuCk8iJkvF2CZi6VQG.jpeg)

--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected

#7

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Here is a better pic…anybody?

–
BPedley


Inspecting for the unexpected

#8

Originally Posted By: jpope
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The service amperage would be determined by the fuses in this box.


![](upload://qKJ1Pn16XSwm8Ndfq6e4B6Qfn4D.jpeg)

Typically, this fuse box will have the fuse capacity stamped on it. Inside it will be two cartridge type fuses which are the "mains" for this type of panel.

Sometimes you have no way to determine the fuse size without pulling the fuse box out. I wouldn't recommend that you do that.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#9

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Jeff,


How can I determine what the fuses are without pulling it and

disconnecting. I couldn't see anywhere else.

--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected

#10

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Unfortunately, you can’t.


There are some real concerns with this because you don't know if the fuses have been replaced with pieces of copper pipe or if 200 amp fuses are being used in a panel rated for 100 amps.

I'm assuming (in this old panel) that there was no visible panel rating either.

Based on these concerns, you could reasonably recommend further evaluation by a state-licensed contractor.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738

#11

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Thankyou very much Jeff,


that is exactly what I did. ![icon_smile.gif](upload://b6iczyK1ETUUqRUc4PAkX83GF2O.gif)

--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected

#12

Originally Posted By: Brian A. Goodman
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[quote=“jpope”]The service amperage would be determined by the fuses in this box.


Well, not necessarily. If the amperage rating for the meter base or service wire is less than the fuse rating, then the lowest of the three would be the actual amperage rating, would it not?

Sometimes you have no way to determine the fuse size without pulling the fuse box out. I wouldn't recommend that you do that.

Amen. I would never pull out a fuse block on an inspection unless I thought there was an imperative safety reason for doing it.

#13

Originally Posted By: Greg Fretwell
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The real service capacity is determined by the service conductors feeding the panel but what you can overload the panel with is determined by the main fuses. icon_wink.gif


#4 copper (what that looks like) would indicate 100a.


#1 copper is 150a


ref NEC 310.15(B)(6)

#14

Originally Posted By: jpope
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Brian A. Goodman wrote:
Well, not necessarily. If the amperage rating for the meter base or service wire is less than the fuse rating, then the lowest of the three would be the actual amperage rating, would it not?


The meter base does not give a true indication of the service amps in older systems, but you're right, there are other ways to determine the capacity of the service.

--
Jeff Pope
JPI Home Inspection Service
"At JPI, we'll help you look better"
(661) 212-0738
#15

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Quote:
Amen. I would never pull out a fuse block on an inspection unless I thought there was an imperative safety reason for doing it.


Funny you mention it. I pull every last one of those accessible Main fuse blocks out in order to verify amperage and proper fuses. I have my client stand back while I give it a slight yank. But before I yank, I have the Realtor go upstairs to confirm that all computers (if any) are shut down. I then leave a note with the home owner stating that power was shut down; I recommend they check all electrical settings.

There are times where I fail to get it pulled out on the first try. I then recommend an Electricians evaluation due to "No access to the inside of the SE".

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
#16

Originally Posted By: wpedley
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Guys,


Look closely at my pics....real close..seriously

would you pull this? This home had too many things wrong.You turn on

the coffee pot and the ceiling light in the living room gets real bright.

Go figure. ![icon_rolleyes.gif](upload://iqxt7ABYC2TEBomNkCmZARIrQr6.gif)

--
BPedley
Inspecting for the unexpected

#17

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Quote:
Funny you mention it. I pull every last one of those accessible Main fuse blocks out in order to verify amperage and proper fuses.


You obviously haven't yet, but at some point you are going to receive a call that something in the home was damaged by your pulling the main fuse. Someone will complain that you damaged their computer, refrigerator or something. At the very least they will be pissed because they had to reset every clock and their VCR. And they will really, really be pissed if the block catches on the way out and one of the soldered in fuses blows!!!

How do you think I learned this?

From the looks of that panel, I'd be darn scared to pull it anyway! ![icon_eek.gif](upload://yuxgmvDDEGIQPAyP9sRnK0D0CCY.gif)
#18

Originally Posted By: dvalley
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.


Quote:
I then leave a note with the home owner stating that power was shut down; I recommend they check all electrical settings.


--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."
#19

Originally Posted By: Blaine Wiley
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Hey Dave, I am only trying to pass off something to keep you from trouble that I had once. It is free advice. Maybe that is what it’s worth.

#20

Originally Posted By: dvalley
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Blaine,


Thank you kindly, sir.![](upload://aJizSi1EuOt25dL2FR4AHt5AZ3G.gif)

--
David Valley
MAB Member

Massachusetts Certified Home Inspections
http://www.masscertified.com

"Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go."