Ok… I do 4-point inspections for one of the larger insurance agencies in the tampa bay area. I get to follow behind lots of guys who have performed 4 points on these homes before me. I always call out double lugged neutral’s and neutrals paired with grounds on the bus where the previous inspector didnt call it out so I will run into issues with a client here and there. Ive even heard inspectors think that because alot of these panels were installed before the actual code was written into the NEC that its grandfather in and ok. I was taught that no matter the age of the panel this issue should be flagged on a 4-point. Also in my area alot of old surge protectors are tied into a panels main lugs that I call out as well that previous guys before me did not. Whats the general concensious here with these issues?
A double tap should be reported, whether it is on a breaker or bus.
Ground wires are a different matter, not exactly sure how many can be landed together. Perhaps George will chime in.
Herc’s a pic of a beauty on the main disconnect from a surge protector.
Who taught you this? I’m curious as to where you are required to bring up electrical to current code books for insurance purposes.
Why stop there? Why not require all circuits to be AFCI and GFCI? If you’re going to nitpick code to the current code book, then shouldn’t it all be current code? How about outlet spacing? Instead of every 8-10 feet on a wall on a 40 year old home , it should be 6 feet. You going to call that out as a defect too? How about counter top outlets? Every kitchen island should have the outlets on the top instead of the side. That’s not up to modern standards.
Sheesh. Where does it end?
Nowadays it’s 2 grounds per lug If I’m not mistaken…
A lot of guys actually will test GFCI on 4 points if they’re installed. I’ve seen plenty of previous 4 points where guys have called out GFCI outlets that won’t trip. The thing with the double lugged neutrals and neutrals paired with grounds is it actually is hazardous and was eventually included in the NEC…
I understand old houses are not up to current codes but if the stuff installed post code isn’t working properly or installed wrong I imagine some guys are going to call it out.
Nothing in the 4 point suggests testing them. If they are obviously deficient that’s one thing(missing buttons, red light, etc). Running around and testing all of them? That’s a fool’s errand.
As to the double lugged neutrals, I won’t call that out on a 23+ year old home. If it was dangerous, shouldn’t that house have spontaneously combusted by now? If it hasn’t, why is it a problem now? On a home built after 2002, I will call it out, I’m not saying you shouldn’t, I just object to sticking the home owner with a bill to change something that has been working for 23 or more years just because “insurance”.
Ya I don’t bother with GFCI either on 4 point and definitely hate bringing additional expenses to a home owner for the neutrals and surge protector issue. I was just curious to hear others reasonings for doing so or not. It would make my job alot easier to not have to call them out so I’m looking for a reason 
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The single neutral per hole in the bus was added to the 2002 NEC {NEC 408.21} but the requirement existed for decades before that as part of the UL listing of the panelboard. The wording was added directly into the NEC because no one really enforced it. A summary of the substantiation for the code change is below:
SUBSTANTIATION: This revision is needed to coordinate the installation requirements with a long standing product standard requirement. Clause 12.3.10 of UL 67 (Panelboards) states “An individual terminal shall be provided for the connection of each branch-circuit neutral conductor.” The requirement has been enforced in the past by a close review of the manufacturers markings and by NEC 110-3(b). However, since it is a rule that specifically effects how the installer can make connections, it is important that it be in the NEC.
This is what I was getting at about it not getting included in the NEC till later on but still always being an issue.
Thanks man this is my assumption as well…
This has been a UL requirement (UL Std. 67 – Panelboard Standard) for some time, and the addition to the NEC is intended to bring this information to the installers. Technically, this is covered by 110.3(B), which requires all equipment to be installed in accordance with the manufacturer’s installation instructions and markings, but nobody knew it existed.
GFCI protection is above and beyond what is required for a 4-point. Double tapped SEC for a lightning arrestor will make it on the report…why? The people looking at the report are going to flag it 9 times out of 10 anyway and it shouldn’t be there to begin with. I had a scorched wire in one home today and grounds and neutrals in a sub panel in another. Report what you see. My clients want their home to be safe. It is not about the insurance…I also recommend installation of GFCI protection when its not there, just doesn’t go on the report as it is not specifically asked.