I agree with Paul, Jeff and Nick!
Can we call this done now?
I have always used the term oversized or improperly sized when describiing a breaker that is too large for the wiring connected to it.
I have always looked at overprotected exactly as Nick has stated.
Fine then. We all agree. I’ll tell you where it’s coming from though…
Inspectors, not wanting to use the correct term “overfused” for fear of implying that a CB panel has fuses have come up with some new terms “over protected” and “excessive overcurrent protection.”
Unfortunately these terms mean the reverse of what inspectors are trying to say. They describe a breaker that is OVERLY protecting (allowing much less current than the circuit can handle)… in other words a breaker that is undersized, not oversized.
They are getting the wrong lingo from a book titled: Inspecting A House by Rex Cauldwell. He has a whole section titled: “Excessive Overcurrent Protection” and goes on to say that it is “a problem which occurs when undersize wire is used with oversize breakers” (page 34).
Rex got it backwards.
Jeff is correct, the term that should be use is “overfused” even when referring to a circuit breaker panel.
lol…I would think so…lol
Hmmm…I would beg to differ as breakers are not fused…they are are either magentic in nature or bi-metal which is not a fuse. A fuse in nature is not resetable and a circuit breaker is.
A good inspector will know when to use " Oversized " or “Undersized” in relation to a fuse or a breaker…two different things and another reason for example grounding and bonding is so screwed up…
A fuse is extinguished beyond reuse…now if the circuit in question is truly a fuse setup…then “overfused” would be fine…if we are to accept it as a general term then fine…it works…
Potato versus potatoe…the old verbiage game
OH BTW…it was an engineer at IDEAL who wrote ( and incorrectly I might add ) an article that said " Electricity is trying to always get to the earth" that started alot of problems in grounding and bonding…it is important to know the proper terms versus development of generic ones…
I can just see an electrician now reading a report saying “overfused” and/or “underfused” and saying to himself…but there are circuit breakers in this house…they are “Undersized” or “Oversized” and then inserting the proper device…which in this case…a circuit breaker.
Sure they both get the message across but which is more accurate for the report.
Over protected is the reverse of overfused/oversized.
lol…classic…I would say OVER PROTECTED means nothing to me…overfused tells me directly…so does oversized…in relation to the breaker itself…over protection implies over and above…and in this case not the case…
How about “Wasted Protection” in regards to putting a 15A breaker on a 30A Circuit…lol…sure it will protect it and is allowed but for a REAL 30A circuit it is wasted protection in my mind…try putting a 15A 2-pole breaker on a 30A Water Heater for a good amount of time…sure it protects it…while I take alot of COLD showers.
Or better yet…“Needless Additional Protection”…their…that would look nice on a report.
anyway…just a poor choice of words is the term " OverProtected "…
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lol…to my mind ( and i wont get into opposites and so on…) overprotected would be putting a 15A breaker on a 10 AWG…in basic branch circuit terms would indeed be overprotected for the conductors…not illegal mind you and done all the time for voltage drop issues.
Anyone know Rex Cauldwell’s email? We should probably alert him.
lol…editted as I was being MEAN…
Opps sorry…I dont really know…
I thought you said you see this in reports Nick…so you are seeing this in publications…
Heck I always see misinformed information…heck some images displayed in many well known books and inspection education companies books as incorrect…yeah they should get em proofed before publication.
I’m seeing it at Report Review often. So I tracked it all down. Rex’s book was one incorrect source. The other problem is the resistance (no electrical play on words) some inspectors have in using the term “overfused” when describing a panel of solely CBs.
Ahhh…gotcha…verbiage can be VERY important in educating others. Sorry I elaborated well beyond your needs as it made for good education for others who are unclear on the proper understanding of the terms.
ok…ok…I can see where “Overprotection” would be kinda the same vectorally as “Undersized”…lolol…but undersized can mean many things electrically and all are generally BAD…lol…overprotection gives the impression of MORE protection or more than is needed when in fact it gives less protection to the conductors in the example being used.
Maybe Rex was speaking of the term loosly…lol…
Ok…I am done with this one unless anyone would like to add more as hell I am doing nothing today but working on my websites…lol
Lets not make something more complicated that it has to be.
What is wrong with saying the overcurrent protection is not matched to the wire size and this may present a hazard. Just be careful that you are not confusing overload protection with overcurrent protection, like an A/C condenser, that appears to have a breaker too large for the wire.
Greg…absolutly nothing but I think NICK was looking for a single term that would explain it versus a term used by Rex Cauldwell as " Overprotected " in terms of a larger breaker on a smaller conductor ( without the exceptions afforded us by the NEC as you stated )…and the use of “Overprotected” in a HI report for the above mentioned example in my mind is improper.
Correct. “Overprotected” means a small breaker, not a big one. I like “Oversized” the most.