my question is
the seller agree to repair on an electric hot water tank, it was missing the disconnect, and the turn of valve…
this is what the seller did … What is this repair? Any ideas?
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It’s a lockout device. It allows the breaker to act as a suitable service disconnect because the breaker can be locked in the off position.
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so is it correct ? and should the breaker be on unless you need it to be turn off?.. I do not understand how this work?
Yes, it is suitable to act as the service disconnect. When a service person puts the breaker in the off position, the square part of the lockout device will go around the breaker handles. Then they can put a lock through the ring. This ensures the breaker stays off during the service work.
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If you meant the Turn Off valve, I agree; the tank should be isolated via a valve.
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Have you ever taken and absorbed a class on basic electrical inspections?
Yes I have an idea. Remove the “Certified Master Inspector” designation from your WEB site and advertisements as a CMI should know this basic item and its purpose. Stop taking money from consumers until you have performed enough training and ride alongs to be able to perform the job you are being paid to do. Take a class in basic research and “Google is my friend” so you can easily find answers to basic questions such as these.
Now for the rest of you out there who want to beat on me for speaking the silent part out loud go right ahead! Add to this that the post was made in the “Public” section of the BB where the whole world can see how INACHI CMI designation must not mean a whole lot.
Also for you people answering questions to basic concepts for any supposed CMI you need to screw your heads on right! This profession has a bad reputation and these type posts certainly do not help that situation.
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CMI does not mean you know every single thing in the world.
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Apparently, it means you are not allowed to ask questions.
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One other thing to note is that if the branch circuit breaker is within sight from the water heater (that’s defined as 50’ or less) the circuit breaker can serve as the disconnecting means so the breaker lockout device would not be required.
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I asked ChatGPT…this was the response.
No, a circuit breaker lock-out cannot typically be used in place of a safety disconnect on an electric water heater. Here’s why:
- Code Compliance: The National Electrical Code (NEC) requires a means of disconnecting power to appliances like electric water heaters for servicing or emergencies. This is usually a disconnect switch or a safety disconnect that must be located within sight of the appliance. A circuit breaker located in a distant panel, even if locked out, might not fulfill this requirement.
- Safety: The purpose of the safety disconnect is to provide a visible and easily accessible means to ensure the power is off when servicing the heater. A lock-out on a circuit breaker can help ensure that power doesn’t accidentally get restored, but it may not be as readily accessible or obvious to workers, which can be a safety concern.
- Inspection: From an inspection perspective, the presence of a proper safety disconnect ensures compliance with local codes and reduces risks for maintenance personnel.
You’d typically need to consult local building codes or the NEC to ensure compliance, but generally, a dedicated safety disconnect is required and preferred.
I asked Google…and it does not know definitively
Basically, a Google or AI search does not answer this question.
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So, if the lock-out is out of site, is a safety disconnect required? I see no provision that a CB lock-out removes the safety disconnect requirement with an out-of-site panel.
Current AI models are still pretty useless when looking for these answers.
422.31(B) Appliances Rated over 300 Volt-Amperes.
For permanently connected appliances rated over 300 volt-amperes, the branch-circuit switch or circuit breaker shall be permitted to serve as the disconnecting means where the switch or circuit breaker is within sight from the appliance or be capable of being locked in the open position in compliance with 110.25.
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Being a CMI definitely means you know the basics and way beyond! As for asking questions fire away if you want to make yourself and the remainder of the Inspectors look ignorant (stupid as their is a difference?) with regards to simple, basic aspects/information regarding inspecting that you are suppose to know from basic inspection training.
Go right ahead, let’s hear more defense of this garbage! Do either of you know what a lock-out is and how it functions??
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Exactly. It would require NEC code knowledge. I’m glad you’re here to offer assistance.
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Consider this Oxford’s definition of master…
“denoting a person skilled in a particular trade and able to teach others.”
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Hopefully you didn’t use this phrase in your report.
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I was under the impression that an electrical disconnect needed to be in sight of the unit or to have a lock out on the breaker. Either would suffice. This is for the protection of the service professional providing service on the unit.
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So the question she asked disqualifies her?
My bottom line is the whole purpose for the little questions and inserts that I put into this thread was I felt like it was incredibly incredibly critical of this CMI for asking a question that may help others and herself.
Furthermore I clearly prove that Google or AI was not going to give an accurate response. And that a further deep dive into NEC code would have been required to fully understand the requirements.
And people want to know why this site is only full of politics well now you see it
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Considering the sources of the information they contain is from users input, does that really surprise you? Just reading the above AI and Google/Wiki results, reminds me of posts in certain Message Boards, Facebook Groups, etc…!
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Thank you for clarifying my concern
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