# How are these grounded? **URL:** \ **Category:** Electrical Inspections\ **Created:** [December 6, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370 "2006-12-06T00:47:10Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![dmacy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/dmacy/32/1466_2.png) [@dmacy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/dmacy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 12:47am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/1 "2006-12-06T00:47:10Z")
Home had a mid 60’s fuse 100 amp service. I had a difficult time inspecting as the panel was in a closet behind a picture. There are 2 pics showing the closet and framing, shelving. I noted the closet & clearance issues. The home had mostly 2 wire but all the receptacles where indicating they where grounded. I double checked with the sure test. I didnt see any conduit. Why are these showng that they are grounded. I also thru in a pic of the spagetti wiring in attic. The knob & tube was special as well. FIRE SALE ![86906 Brookpark 032 (Small).jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/c/a/ca220a89589dc82ec6848c79a7a6c80b5a622de6.jpeg) ![86906 Brookpark 033 (Small).jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/8/f/8fff561fcf45406748d9533cdd0c31a724d4d61c.jpeg) ![86906 Brookpark 036 (Small).jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/b/b/bbcfe80b895990c3d3899bc0e5239e677bea9442.jpeg) ![86906 Brookpark 026 (Small).jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/7/9/790d437af0527d5aed46da1b6aaab2ccf20f9705.jpeg) ![86906 Brookpark 017 (Small).jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/9/9/996d9e5e62e444c39ff274053f7333a80014b709.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:27am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/2 "2006-12-06T01:27:23Z")
Your last picture shows the grounding conductor, which was added to the original two-wire K&T (poorly, I might add). ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:29am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/3 "2006-12-06T01:29:29Z")
interesting connection on the last picture in regards to the EGC…last I checked K & T did not come with a EGC…and you should not splice a conductor WITH a EGC onto a circuit that has no EGC… ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:30am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/4 "2006-12-06T01:30:06Z")
Bootleg ground? Like this pic I pilfered from somewhere: ![BOOTLEG GROUND1.jpg](https://global.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/original/3X/5/6/56a2503f8a01a7f911f436b154164c0d9c365d32.jpeg) ---
**Author:** ![jpope](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/jpope/32/59425_2.png) [@jpope](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jpope)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:31am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/5 "2006-12-06T01:31:36Z")
I would have said the same Larry, if he hadn’t checked it with the SureTest. . . ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:34am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/6 "2006-12-06T01:34:16Z")
Sorry david…I did not answer the other part…they are showing grounded possibly because someone went and individually grounded each receptacle to a grounded source. Otherwise it could not be a bootleg because you used a suretest and it would detect that effect. Now could it be that someone strung a EGC around like the last picture in the set…and everything is connected to that and then all the receptacles have been updated with NM cable with ground…and done like the last picture…quite possible… dont like it… I would defer…something smells here and I WOULD love to be the electrician you call to look it over…but alas…too far of a commute. Did you pull the panel…got any pictures from the inside of those panels…showing if their are EGC’s present and so on…might tell us more. ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:36am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/7 "2006-12-06T01:36:21Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > Bootleg ground? > > Like this pic I pilfered from somewhere: ewww…nice one Larry…and in Wiremold no less…classy 😉 ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:38am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/8 "2006-12-06T01:38:24Z")
> [@jpope](#): > > I would have said the same Larry, if he hadn’t checked it with the SureTest. . . Yes, thank you…I’ll have to get a Suretest. I’ve been somewhat reluctant due to my research, in the past, indicating premature and regular failure of the plug connections. A little expensive for that or maybe it has improved. ---
**Author:** ![lkage](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/lkage/32/347658_2.png) [@lkage](https://forum.nachi.org/u/lkage)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:39am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/9 "2006-12-06T01:39:42Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > ewww…nice one Larry…and in Wiremold no less…classy 😉 Thank you, I try to steal only the best. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pabernathy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/pabernathy/32/178230_2.png) [@pabernathy](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pabernathy)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 1:40am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/10 "2006-12-06T01:40:53Z")
Hey Larry…I have had my 65-155 for a few years now…and still going strong…worth the investment and the ends can be replaced as well if needed. ---
**Author:** ![gbeaumont](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gbeaumont/32/1094_2.png) [@gbeaumont](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gbeaumont)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 4:06am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/11 "2006-12-06T04:06:54Z")
Hi to all, That is the most screwed up installation onto K&T that I have ever seen, I thought I had just about seen it al but adding a 3rd conductor to support the ground on an old K&T circuit thats a first. BTW, great call Jeff, I had to look at the picture several times before I got what had been done. Regards Gerry ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Fretwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@Greg\_Fretwell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Greg_Fretwell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 4:07am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/12 "2006-12-06T04:07:59Z")
That grounded K&T looks pretty “real”. It has the same style knobs and loom. I wonder if the electrician who installed the original did think a ground was a good idea and pulled one in along with the 2 circuit conductors. It wasn’t the usual way to install K&T but I can’t think of a reason it wouldn’t have been legal. I agree the Romex guy could have used a bug or some solder to make his taps. Makes you wonder what is under that tape huh? ---
**Author:** ![gbeaumont](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/internachi/user_avatar/forum.nachi.org/gbeaumont/32/1094_2.png) [@gbeaumont](https://forum.nachi.org/u/gbeaumont)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 4:10am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/13 "2006-12-06T04:10:27Z")
> [@lkage](#): > > Thank you, I try to steal only the best. 😃 You have class Larry, I posted that image in a QOD a couple of years ago 😃 Problem is I flitched it of someone even better, but forgot to put the attribution on it at the time. it is a great image 😉 Regards Gerry ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Fretwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@Greg\_Fretwell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Greg_Fretwell)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 4:25am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/14 "2006-12-06T04:25:08Z")
I found one in my father in laws house a couple weeks ago that made me say huh. I pulled out the receptacle in the bathroom and it was pigtailed with bare wire, all 3. Fortunately I am not a “he man” who works live when I don’t absolutely have to so it was turned off at the breaker. I wish I had a camera but you get the picture. I guess the installer ran out of insulated wire. The amazing thing was this was a GFCI and the box was still over wire count. I don’t have a clue how he got all of that bare wire in there without shorting something, even with a plastic box. ---
**Author:** ![jschulte](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/aeb1de/32.png) [@jschulte](https://forum.nachi.org/u/jschulte)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 6:00am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/15 "2006-12-06T06:00:45Z")
I can’t imagine the time they would have spent installing new tubes to run the grounding conductor. Would have been easier to just run romex. There must have been another circuit there that they disposed of to make room for the grounding conductor. > [@](#): > > That grounded K&T looks pretty “real”. It has the same style knobs and loom. I wonder if the electrician who installed the original did think a ground was a good idea and pulled one in along with the 2 circuit conductors. Would they have had appropriate (three prong or some other method of grounding) outlets at the time of knob and tube? ---
**Author:** ![Michael\_Martin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9fc348/32.png) [@Michael\_Martin](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Michael_Martin)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2006, 5:59pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/16 "2006-12-06T17:59:44Z")
Maybe it was the same electrician that wired my house in Fairview Park (not far from the house pictured in this thread) in 1966 using 100a fused service (split bus panel) and k&t. (People still shake their heads in amazement that a 40-year old home was built with k&t). But the house wiring does have grounding conductors throughout. Seems awfully labor intensive to install 3-wire k&t, but that what they did, using green insulated, not bare, wire for the grounding conductor. ---
**Author:** ![Greg\_Fretwell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/f1d935/32.png) [@Greg\_Fretwell](https://forum.nachi.org/u/Greg_Fretwell)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/17 "2006-12-07T02:21:05Z")
Union job? The biggest problem with K&T is the cost to do it. With modern parts it could be bulletproof. ---
**Author:** ![pdickerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@pdickerson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pdickerson)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:36am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/18 "2006-12-07T02:36:15Z")
> [@pabernathy](#): > > ewww…nice one Larry…and in Wiremold no less…classy 😉 Paul. Is a Wiremold the practice of wrapping a wire around a terminal screw and then continuing the wire to another termination? Is that improper? ---
**Author:** ![pdickerson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@pdickerson](https://forum.nachi.org/u/pdickerson)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 2:41am UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/19 "2006-12-07T02:41:48Z")
Let’s try that again. In the bootlet ground photo, the ground/neutral wire wraps around the neutral terminal, and then is routed to the ground terminal. Is there any issue with wrapping the middle of a wire around a screw like that? ---
**Author:** ![mthomas2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/a87d85/32.png) [@mthomas2](https://forum.nachi.org/u/mthomas2)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2006, 4:41pm UTC](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370/20 "2006-12-07T16:41:14Z")
The other day, for the first time ever outside of a book, I saw a proper splice between K&T and modern wiring. ``` And the punch line is…. the ***homeowner*** had done it (!) ``` [Next page](https://forum.nachi.org/t/how-are-these-grounded/10370.md?page=2)