How folks voted at ASTM

Sorry, I removed this post for some personal reasons.

Scott,

Where did this information come from and how did you obtain it?

The majority listed in favor are vender’s. Do they have something to benefit from this?

Dan and Scott,

Technically, I am also a vendor. I would not be in favor of it. I see little in the way of benefitting, unless you assume that all inspectors are idiots, and that all existing SOPs are worthless. I do not beileve either.

Vendors can and should make plenty of money instructing seasoned inspectors in a verity of things; whether they be refresher courses or expanding knowledge in other areas.

We do not need yet another standard. I invite you to read ASTM 2810-01 / Commecial Property Assessments and tell me if, with all of your experience, you could not or would not do just as good (if not better) inspection without it. 2810-01 adds nothing. In fact, some of it is laughable.

This is about money. Pure and simple. It isnt ablut protecting the consumer. We all know this.

If we could put down our swords for a moment, perhaps this is a unique opportunity for the two largest HI associations, along with others, to stop spitting at each other, and form a working group to crush the ASTM initiative for what it is.

We have the rest of our lives to snipe at each other. We have limited time to defeat this.

Just a thought…

Unfortunately, as with other posts of Scott Patterson (ASHI Membership Chairman and Board of NHIE) he was close but not totally right on.

For example, I didn’t say I was for or against the proposal - I said among other things that I saw no reason to not examine it farther.

Lot of people in the room - but I know Scott & don’t remember seeing Scott there.

Most of the folks he’s listed as not in Favor (Kurt Salomon - ASHI BOD Member), Brion Grant (Pres-Elect of ASHI), Marv Goldstein & Paul Staron (ASHI Members) are ASHI Members AND I think we’ve already established that ASHI’s leadership as well as EBPHI/NHIE is set against this.

About 10/12 years ago ASHI & CREIA were merged for a brief point in our history (Not any more) so a lot of CREIA is ASHI.

You can’t really blame them - they’ve got ASHI’s Standards in play in MANY states and don’t want a serious contender to alter that (especially one that could be NOT Association Specific). Makes sense from their viewpoint.

I’m glad you cleared that up Dan. When I read this I had a big “WOW” moment. :slight_smile:

Joe,

Many who read this aren’t familiar with 2810-01 as they don’t perform commercial inspections. Can you elaborate on which provisions of the standard are poor and why, so they can see how this might pertain to residential inspection standards instituted by ASTM?

Thanks!

I’m getting sloppy - I didn’t give full credit where due - Marv Goldstein was one of the group you would consider ASHI founders (somewhere in the first 30-60 members in join back in 1976/1977 area); and Paul Staron I believe is one of ASHI’s current Committee Chairs (like for PR or Marketing, etc).

Good post Scott.

The main point though is that when you correct for number of inspectors each represent (ASHI & NACHI alone are at least 10 times larger than scumbag NAHI), the vote was overwhelmingly in opposition.

I think they should give a vote to each body of people, not individuals, and each one have a representative vote for them.
The way it all played out, it sure looks like collusion to me and should be revoted upon with adequate notice and discovery to all parties affected.

I’m a vendor and a capitalist, but that wouldn’t influence my vote. I voted against it, because it makes no sense, but I’m willing to listen. However, there’s no need for concern, because it will be voted away at the next “meeting,” which we should know about well in advance this time.

With 3 major NATIONAL Associations, and many state associations (some are heavily dominated by special interest groups in the national associations), I don’t really see this going far. But I see no harm in looking at what they propose. Just like with meging into 1 model building code - its not working - too many individuals have vested interests in the old ways.

Obviously they’re a lot of folks who wanta keep their own association Standards in play - not use Standards that some other group writes.

It might be better for the consumer but worse for some Associations.

REAL ESTATE INSPECTION

STANDARDS OF PRACTICE

PREPARED FOR

**THE AMERICAN SOCIETY FOR TESTING AND MATERIALS
**

RUSSELL STRAHAN, P.E.
AUSTIN, TEXAS

JOHN CAHILL
PLANO, TEXAS

FEBRUARY 12, 2007

This white paper was posted on the ASHI board, in my opinion it is a very good first step forward, hopefully Russell or John see fit to post it here.

Uh oh. Dan…not the old, worn out and abused “best interest of the consumer” argument.

C’mon, man. I am still trying to understand how the consumer will benefit from a law that will provide for Lewis Capual’s increased market share in Washington…and now I have to try to understand how the consumer will benefit from an additional SOP.

What complaints have you heard from consumers or their advocacy groups regarding the SOPs utilized by ASHI or NACHI inspectors?

Joe…John did publish that document here 12 days ago. Try: http://nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=13477&highlight=ASTM or go straight to www.betterstandards.com .

http://www.nachi.org/standardsorganizations.htm

Thanks, sorry I missed it the first time.