hvac/r-value question

We are drifting from qualitative to quantitative, I know.
My cross eyed mix up two times didn’t help matters either! Sorry.
That’s what happens when you get in a hurry and then post from your cell phone while waiting for a client that is LATE! :frowning:

Sorry I was beside myself.
I’m loading my horses and heading North for the rest of the week.
I should be better then! :slight_smile:

Kevin, I had no intention for debating this issue. I was asking because I thought you had something I am missing. I am still all ears.

Besides the fact that I could not type what I meant, and the fact that we were talking about qualitative scans (which we all posted about and then moved on to quantitative stuff), I do not understand the need to change any camera settings when your intent is quantitative. As I said, I remove these apparent temps all together most of the time. I go threw all my pic’s and remove the temp spot before using them in my report. I want no incorrect information recorded that I will have to explain or debate in the future.

The issue (which we seem to agree on) is that these settings do not change the image of the scan. They do not help you see anomalies. Changing the span does, but not the other settings.

Lets just say that I went all through the process:
Set camera emissivity to 1 and measure reflected apparent temp (RAT) and adjust camera.
Place a known emissivity treatment on the material.
Uniformly heat the material 60 degrees above RAT.
Set camera to the known emissivity of the control material and measure temp.
Move measurement tool to the untreated material and adjust camera emissivity until it matches the above temp.
This is the e-setting for this material.
E-Charts are not accurate as in this case ,I agree.

Only if you lie to it.
Crap in-Crap out.

It is, now that we are talking about it.

I did, even though I did not post what I did. Would the settings help? I can post them.

My point is that these temp measurements should be as close as possible or removed. If you are scanning a circuit breaker and your spot measurement tool happens to be on the copper wire and your camera is set at .95 or even 1.0 when you are focusing your attention to the wire insulation or breaker body temp, what shows up on the screen is an apparent temp of a .23 emissivity object and you will have a scan with a spot temp way out there.

A lot of people take scans and do not edit them. Just snap and shoot and stick it in a report. I see this all the time. I am just trying to point out that even if you are calling it a qualitative scan, when you leave this information in or adjust the camera to make it worse you are opening yourself up for scrutiny. My vote is to remove anything you are not intentionally trying to point out.

Again, sorry for the confusion of my posts.
I’m out the door to correct that, now! :slight_smile:

Bingo, Bango, Bongo!! I believe you just hit the nail on the head :slight_smile:

Then why would you put a emissivity value in your camera that you know may not be accurate. We know that we cannot rely on the tables provided by the camera manufactures. That is one of the main reasons you should just leave it to 1.00.

Another Bingo!! Since we are not concerned with taking temperature measurements in qualitative surveys, then set E to 1.00 and remove the error source. Just removing it from the display does not change the setting!

Debates are good, heathly, and fun :slight_smile: Have a nice vacation.

Kevin

Here is the problem of this conversation!
My camera default is not 1.0!
I have to change it to set it to 1.0.
So I ask myself, “why do I want to change it wrong” (seeing I have to change it off the default)?
Changing the default in the BCAM also puts more “stuff” on the screen that I don’t want there in the first place!

I was narrow visioned before vacation and couldn’t see past my nose? :slight_smile:

I’m better now. There is little time to think of IR or HI stuff when your on top of a horse on a 16 in wide trail with big loose boulders on the overhanging cliffs of southern Illinois in the Shawnee National Forrest, or crossing wet rock behind a waterfall! I did think about the Mold Issue when I was in damp caves though! :eek:
My wife sold this horse while there so our vacation expenses are covered for this year!

You do have the ability to change the E setting to 1 and remove the “info” from the display screen.

Anyways, do what makes you feel more at ease and comfortable. Setting the E value to 1.00 during qualitative applications is what most professional thermographers consider “best practices.”

If you don’t “get it”…you don’t get it!!

Glad to hear you had a nice vacation :slight_smile:

Kevin

Depending on how you save the scan in the software you can get it all out. However, saving to bitmap which gets rid of everything is not a good resolution sometimes.

The main point to all is that changing the e-value does not change the scan picture.

Tim:

Congratulations on the purchase of your new imager.

Aside from purchasing infrared imaging equipment, selecting the proper infrared training course(s) is one of the most important decisions a new thermographer will make. Recommending courses is often a challenge since the appropriate courses will be dependent upon how one wishes to utilize his imager in the future. In general, our recommendations are as follows:

For Home Inspectors whose sole interest is building inspections: Infrared Inspections for Home and Building Inspectors

For HIs wishing to unlock greater potential with their imager through qualitative applications: Level I Certified Infrared Thermographer®

For those wishing to perform quantitative inspections and seeking a higher level of certifiaction: Level II Certified Infrared Thermographer®

For those pursuing industry best practices and seeking the highest level of certification: Level III Certified Infrared Thermographer®

If you are looking for a course that is geared specifically to building and home applications, I would invite you to consider our 16 hour application course, Infrared Inspections for Home and Building Inspectors. This course is designed specifically for professional inspectors; it is not a ‘pared down’ or abbreviated course. This course is approved by NACHI for 16 hours of continuing education ann may be applied to the requirements for thermographer certification through Infraspection Institute and NACHI.

Infrared Inspections for Home and Building Inspectors is held regularly in the Philadelphia, PA area. For your convenience, this course is also available via our web-based Distance Learning program. NACHI member price for either option is only $500.

For more information, call us at 609239-4788 or visit us online at: www.infraspection.com

We look forward to working with you.

Jim Seffrin, Director
Infraspection Institute

IR Training from the IR Professionals

Nice Tip to consider: http://www.irinfo.org/tip_of_week.html

Look at the current tip!

Regards,

Kevin