Sorry I agree with
Quote:
Originally Posted by ksitzes
Just let the door hit our hand an place Little resistance. If door will not reverse you can let go. It should not take much to door get the door to reverse.
I will take my chances in court. I would tell then I feel the resistance I used to try and make the door reverse is more then it would take to hurt a three year old child , Any more and it might have destroyed the door.
CRA… Roy Cooke sr. Royshomeinspection.com.
A little additional information that I use with over head doors
If the door might comes off its tracks make sure kids, cars, etc will not be damaged. If so DON’T test. Door cost is one thing but a 300 pound door on a kid or a car is a little to much $$
The spec is around 15 pounds down and 25 pounds up which the 2 by 4 test does not test. 100 pounds is not nice and would pass the 2 by 4 test
State to the client that there is a standard and if they want the door tested to the standard call a door company. Testing to the standard requires equipment and it comes with a risk of breaking the door.
As Harvey said there is a proper way to test and we are not testers we are inspectors. IMO the 2 by 4 is ok if the client does it - NOT me. I test with the “feel” method because if the door does not reverse I have more of a chance of letting go before the door breaks. The 2 by 4 can cause the door to break if the door does not reverse.
I try to test the door only if is safe and without the people in the area - Don’t want someone to get hurt. If I feel that it is out of spec I recommend getting it tested. If it feels good I say nothing other than if they want it tested to spec call the door company.
I want to sleep at night and I would feel real bad if I tested with a 2 by 4 and some kid got hurt real bad.
If in my opinion I don’t feel comfortable with the door I flag it. Remember they can make a mess out of a nice car if someone hits the down button when the car is parked under it
Oh yes I stand OUTSIDE when I test.
If someone has a copy of the old and the new specs I should would like to see a copy posted.
RR might have one - of course there is always google
rlb
Garage Door Operators
or:
Garage Door Operators
Maybe its just me…but I have posted the “standard” for testing the AUTO REVERSING feature…did I miss something?
What “standard” is everyone referring to here?
I thought we were talking about how to test the AUTO REVERSING feature.
Harvey, as my State Standards are rather loosely worded I only have to use “reasonable resistance” (standards quoted above). I grab the door, for both opening and closing. Grabbing the door for opening force is an important test and should be done, as lifting a child and pulling them through the door would not be good (also an auto reversing test). I have never damaged a door. I believe that the 2 x 4 test has greater chance of damaging the door than me grabbing the door, especially if the door has improper force settings.
Now if there are people doing the 2 x 4 test then good for them.
If all your competition is jumping off a bridge does that mean you should do as well? I suggest you use caution while inspecting garage doors. If the door is bent or has questionable support I would forgo the resistance test and only use the photoelectric test. As long as you indicate in your report your exact procedure for the inspection and the results of your findings you should be covered. First, you tell them what you’re going to do. Second, you tell them what you’re not going to do. Third, you tell them what you did. Fourth, you tell them the results of your tests. Fifth, you suggest repairs or replacement, if needed. Sixth, you collect your fee. Seventh, you give them their report. :nachi:
I agree! :nachi:
Well, I thought we were talking about home inspections. Did I miss something?
However, if all my competition is jumping off bridges, that means that, shortly, I will have 100% market share. So as long as I’m last, and have more toys than they do to leave behind, sure, why not? 
Thank you for your suggestions, but I already do. In fact, I use caution throughout my whole inspection process. I consulted with my attorneys and insurance providers in setting up business and inspection protocols that are as safe as they can be for everyone involved. And I train my employees in what I’ve always known as “TS”, or “Total Safety” (from warehouse union laborers).
I do.
Well, I do it a little differently:
First, I collect my fee. Second, I tell them what I’m going to do. Third, I tell them what I’m not going to do. Fourth, I tell them what I did. Fifth, I tell them the results of my tests. Sixth, I suggest repairs or replacement, if needed. Seventh, I give them their report.
Lastly, I use the “reasonable resistance” test like Brian does, and as most home inspectors here, if not all of them, do, although I know some who use the bottled water test and some who use the roll of paper towels test. I put the “proper” testing instructions in my report and tell my Clients that if they want the test done “properly,” they should hire a garage door installation professional to do the test so that if there are any problems they can be fixed on the spot. So I’m with Brian, Kenneth, Roy, and Richard.
RR
I know that we all have the skill to look at a lot of subjects a little different and still be right but some where additional knowledge can help.
If someone has the REAL standard and testing procedure without using up a day to find it I would sure like to see it. (Don’t think the 2 by 4 is in any STANDARD - maybe an accepted practice or something a home ower should do - who knows)
As far as just testing the AUTO REVERSING part – just block the photo cell and check that it is at least close enough to the ground that a kids body will trip it.
No photo cell – it gets written up – end of story
The resistance test UP and down lets me know that my client does not have a problem that he does not know about that might cost him or me down the road.
That is what he is paying me to find out.
Until then good inspecting
rlb
Richard, the 2x4 test is the standard that all in the industry recognise, here are some links
From the Door manufactures accosiation: http://www.dasma.com/safetygdmaint.asp
From the CPSC: http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/pubs/523.html
And yes I also think it’s nuts, but what do I know?
Regards
Gerry
See post #6 in this thread by Harvey Gordon.
It really is a standard, but it also is a standard that has the potential to cause serious damage. There are quite a few home inspectors here in San Diego who have purchased new garage doors using the “standard,” and I believe one CREIA inspector also paid out $12,000 or so for damage to a car.
If one wants to use that “standard,” by all means do. Just make sure that your various insurance policies are all paid up.
I don’t use that “standard” and have no plans to start anytime in this century.
Thanks, Gerry.
Hi to all,
I knew I had it somewhere, here is the DASMA (Door manufacturers association) check list for testing overhead doors.
BTW, I am reminded of Jerry Pecks comments when faced with a door damaged while being tested according to the DASMA protocols…***“Failed under testing”***
Regards
Gerry
And we have not even got in to the “UP” stop test yet…
Before conducting the Acceptale Standard test, I always:
[ul]
[li]Explain the test and SHOW them[LIST][/li][li]The lable on THEIR garage door (most have it)[/li][li]A printout of the DASMA/UL/CPS Standard[/li][li]Show them and explain the Home inspector Check list by DASMA[/ul][/li][li]Ask that ALL vehicles be removed from the garage[/li][li]Use the Home Inspector Checklist[/li]If door while testing ANY component fails I use the “Failed Under Test using NATIONALLY Accepted Standard for testing Garage Doors by DASMA/UL/CPS”[/LIST]Thanks Gerry!
[quote=hgordon]
Before conducting the Acceptale Standard test, I always:
[ul]
[li]Explain the test and SHOW them[LIST][/li][li]The lable on THEIR garage door (most have it)[/li][li]A printout of the DASMA/UL/CPS Standard[/li][li]Show them and explain the Home inspector Check list by DASMA[/ul][/li][li]Ask that ALL vehicles be removed from the garage[/li][li]Use the Home Inspector Checklist[/li][li]If door while testing ANY component fails I use the “Failed Under Test using NATIONALLY Accepted Standard for testing Garage Doors by DASMA/UL/CPS”[/LIST][/li][/quote]
Here’s what failed under testing will get you in California using the standard California Association of Realtors purchase contract, which is what everyone uses here:
So if you’re here in California and choose to follow Harvey’s protocol, I would suggest also asking your Clients, “Do you agree to be liable for all damage that this test might cause, and do you agree to hold harmless me, my company, my employees, my family, corporate officers, etc., etc. If yes, sign here. If no, call a garage door installation company to perform the test or have the seller perform the test.”
And if you do a search for failed under testing, garage doors, and the like at inspectionnews.com, creia.org, and ashi.org, you’ll find a lot of people who have paid for garage doors. So if you’re here in California, and you choose to do the “standard” test, make sure your insurance is paid up because I suspect the buyer isn’t going to want to pay for damages.
As I tell my Clients quite often, I’m here to check out the place, but since it doesn’t belong to me, and it doesn’t belong to you, I’m going to try to do it without causing any of what I call “The Four D’s.” That’s death, disability, damage, or destruction. That gets a chuckle out of them and let’s them know that safety and property protection are paramount.
And for those in other states, I’d recommend becoming familiar with your state’s standard real estate purchase contract so that you can work with and for your Clients rather than possibly causing damage which, in this case, happens waaaaaaaaaaaay too often, and which they might have to pay for.
Disclose, disclose, disclose.
Educate, educate, educate.
And,
if necessary,
Disclaim and defer. There’s nothing wrong with that, especially if your Clients agree with you.
Gerry below is the force test as copied from the first site you listed, you are performing this test, yes?
This is the first chance that I’ve had to read the answers to my original post. Sounds like I stirred up a lot of discussion and some good information.
In Texas, by TREC standards, we are required to test the auto-reversing feature of the door. Here’s what our standard says about it.
If I had used a piece of wood to test the door, I would have damaged it even worse than I did when I applied a few pounds of resistance with my hand.
When I damaged the first door a couple of years ago, I tried explaining to the realtor that I was testing it like I had tested all other doors and that it wasn’t “my fault,” it was a flimsy door. But instead of losing his business, I spent over $150 to get it fixed.
I just don’t want to have to pay for another one in the future, hence the original question “How do ya’ll test them.?”
Thanks
LOL…maybe they just want your tech to look at the manual?
I bet that is a bit of their own CYA eh?