Let me know when you are in BC, I would love to part of that meeting - if it really happens;-)
Nick; When you are finished with your round of meetings would you prepare a summary of comments made by Gov’t officials from each area and post the comments in the members section ?
I am not opposed to licensing home inspectors, but licensing doesn’t stop bad practices.
David Verge
Ask for liquid sunshine. We(s)t coast style!
We have lots of it and…
we do not have to shovel it.
Nick, please consider the following in your talks up here in Canada;
1- The C.A.P.H.I. O.A.H.I. cabal have for years told the ‘government’ that N.A.C.H.I. is just a collection of ill trained, inexperienced, dangerous boobs who were working construction yesterday and now are inspectors. You will have to try to convince them that N.A.C.H.I. here in Canada is a force to be reckoned with.
2- Show them that most Canadian Inspectors have not been consulted or in any way involved during the ‘construction’ of the National Certification programme, despite being charged otherwise by C.M.H.C.
3- Grandfathering. There are many inspectors out here who have completed hundreds if not thousands of inspections over multiple years who should not be forced to pay up to $2000. or go back to school just to comply with regulations. The fact is that, for the most part, these regulations have been authored by a group who have a vested interest in limiting the number of inspectors rather than allowing the free market to do so. And you know what government regulation of a free market produces - the Canadian economy:mrgreen:
4- If licensing is to become a fact then it must be carried out by an arm of the government and not sub-contracted to ANY H.I. org including this one. All H.I. orgs must be treated equally and the playing field leveled for all inspectors aligned and non-aligned alike.
5- A report authored by you on what was said and done, what commitments were made ( if any) and some suggestions on what direction we should move would be greatly appreciated.
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Nick:
I have come across an application for the National Certification process.
My understanding was that CAHPI was to administer the process and make it available to all current home inspectors.
I asked you to advocate a level playing field for all HIs in Canada regardless of affiliation in a previous post.
The application fees for Certification reflect an outlandish disparity.
CAHPI/OAHI members $530.00
non members $1,166.00
Roy and Ray have been making a case that the powers that be (OAHI/CAHPI)are trying exercise/maintain control in the HI industry.
This disparity in fees certainly reflects that IMHO.
Cheers
Also be sure to ask why a self regulating body which has rec’d public funding claiming to be an certification body has itself has not been audited for compliance to CAN P9. The National claims it meets the criteria of CAN P9, but can’t seem to muster the will to have an audit done. This calls into question the lack of will, and accountability lacking in a self regulating body. No one knows for sure it meets CAN P9 only what we have been told by less than scrupulous leaders.
Doug and others, I would suggest that one looks into the basis for the cost that is quoted. Perhaps part of it makes senses, than again, I am sure that not everyone will agree, so here goes. This is my general understanding of such a difference. BTW: there are other organizations that have two tier membership costs.
Example - cost for administration and background review of a non-aligned inspectors. Those aligned and those that belong to other associations that have provided information to the certification committee to “benchmark” the inspectors background criteria will create less time - hence less cost to process and therefore committee review of an application. More specifically, those have offered the information have helped in forming articulation agreements (agreements in principle) with the national certification council.
The issue of cost related to discilpine and professional practice administration becomes at a much higher cost - such as additional legal cost for a non-aligned applicant. Afterall how does one deal with non-aligned applicants.
These are just a few of the many costs that are factored into a higher fee.
Claude:
I don’t think anyone would argue the fact that there are is a significant number of NACHI members currently performing home inspections in Canada.
We are not “not aligned”. Its time CAHPI/OAHI recognized NACHI members, or anyone outside their club, as equals instead of treating us like idiots:twisted:
I am not against a National Certification or a national standard of competence for home inspectors.
I would just like to be treated with RESPECT! As do other NACHI members, I’m sure!
Nick: Just get the powers that be to do the above and we will be fine.
JMHO
Cheers
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Doug I suggest that you follow this thread. Perhaps it adds another POV to your concerns. http://www.nachi.org/forum/showthread.php?t=11077
I have had the opportunity to oversee field examinations of many inspectors from all walks, associations or not! No one is rendering an opinion here - other than any person that believes that number of inspections equal a better inspector, or that one association is better than the other needs to realize there are many dimensions to the home inspection sector. In other words performance under test review provides some very interesting results. That is why grandfathering does not work.
I for one believe that everyone deserves a fair chance, so please don’t associate me with not feeling that I disrepect others! Some may say guilt by association - than again no association is perfect!
Claude:
I read that thread after I made my last post.
I read Bill’s rules of engagement and his messages. Seems like he wants us all to get along (dogs and cats). :o I agree.
Like I said I just want to play in the same sandbox and have equal access to the toys.:mrgreen:
Merry Christmas
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CMI cost 175.00 and A.Sc.T. Cost 350.00 for a review and certification. I submit that the cost for RHI is a money grab typical of the whole CAPHI program. It is either a rip off or the review board does not know what they are doing, thus taking too long to do the review and costing too much. In other words they are over paid.
That my story and I’m sticking to it.:roll:
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Vern:
The National Certificate is not an RHI designation. It is a stand-alone National Certification. The RHI is a provincial designation.
IThe National one is also voluntary, so if you don’t wish to participate that’s your choice. It’s also your choice and right to not participate. It won’t affect anyone else.
By the way, the members of the Certification Council get paid the princely sum of $ 150. per day when they meet in person. When they work at home (mostly) they are paid nothing. I don’t think they’re overpaid when you consider that for each application they need to check through anywhere from fifteen to fifty documents and make sure they are in order. There is no rubber-stamping in this program.
Sorry if I misread your message.
Bill Mullen
I though the review was $100.00. The $1166.00 was quoted above. I assumed this was correct.
If that is all they are paid why does it cost $1,166.00?
OAHI books never balanced and a large % of the CAHPI secret society are OAHI members.
Try and see how you can work these figures of Bills in see below . Roy Cooke
Quote:
Test inspection with Peer Review (TIPR) is part of our National Certification program. I agree it is a daunting task, but feel it is necessary to ensure that even old-timers like me are doing inspections right. Yes, I will have to pass one.
We actually have some government money to develop the protocol and train ‘reviewers’ but the examination process should pay for itself.
We will train several ‘reviewers’ will will be very experienced inspectors. Hopefully, many will either be retired or close to retirement. We call them ‘Emeritus Volunteers’ although we will be paying them an honorarium. Inspectors being Peer Reviewed will pay a fee (amount still to be determined) which should offset the cost to CAHPI.
If we examine 5000 inspectors in a period of six months, that is about 200 per week. If we have a team of twenty examiners across Canada, that’s only ten per week per examiner. We estimate that each examiner can process five or six people per day. Like most jobs, they don’t seem so bad when you break them down into chunks.
Bill Mullen
Overall government funding likely reached about a million dollars. (I haven’t got the figures right in front of me) This amount was at least matched by contributions from CAHPI members and others. However, CAHPI received very little actually until near the end. CAHPI did not exist until 2002 when it was formed from the amalgamation and agreements of several smaller Canadian organizations. CAHPI is the result of the National Initiative, not the creator.
I’m not sure which review you mean. The individual pieces of the certification process are not individually priced. Nothing is $ 100. That was the fee charged to participate in the Pilot Project but that’s over now.
Bill Mullen
The pilot cost 100.00 Right!
What does the review cost now? $1166.00?
Why does this review (National Certification) cost so much more when other Associations can do it for $350.00 or less?
ASET does it for 350.00 and that includes two years off full time classes that have to be evaluated etc.
The Pilot Project was subsidized by government and CAHPI money. That’s why it was offered for only $ 100. Participants had to understand it was a Pilot Project and that they would likely be subjected to some things that would work and some that would not. You should have saved money by staying in the project, but then again you see no use for the National Certification and that is your right. It’s totally voluntary.
Every association does things differenly using different standards and levels of rigour. I don’t know who ASET is but I doubt that they include one or two Test Inspections with peer review. The NCA could cut costs by cutting quality and rigor, but that is not going to happen. The certification has to maintain its value.
Bill Mullen
ASET has been around for over 40 years and have a lot higher standard then CAPHI or OAHI. If you do not know who ASET is you should not be speculating on their procedures and standards.
As for peer review to be ASET certified your work and knowledge was reviewed for two full years by a professional engineer or architect.
Why does it cost $1166.00 to review an HI’s qualifications?
I just have to throw my two bits worth in here. I absolutely detest the idea of any gov’t or one association intervention in attempting to try and tell me how I should or shouldn’t do my job, or run my business. History has proven itself over and over, that it winds up with mismanaged funds…way out to lunch fees and overspending…no accountability for funds granted or where it all goes. All I need to say is “THE GUN REGISTRY SCANDAL”. Some big shot comes up with this great idea (probably during his “pulling his head out of his a$$ for a couple of minutes to get some air, break” …then he’s gung-ho to impose this on us the taxpayers for the next couple of years, because he really does believe in this cause. How many things have they stuck their snuaze into for the betterment of mankind, and have now wound up in the crapper… get out your calculator for that one boys.
As history proved once again…the gov’t should stick to running our country and being accountable for every cent they are spending of OUR MONEY!!! They can’t even do that right, but yet they figure they can step in and save the world from all of its follies…YEA RIGHT. I for one, am sick and tired of gov’t intervention into business. The market place will allways take care of **itself…**yes there will be some people that will get screwed because of a incompetent inspector or because of there own lack of prudence, eg. “well I took the cheapest inspection I could find for 1OO.OO” THOSE type got what they paid for …I don’t even feel sorry them.:roll: Even the gov’t can’t protect you from stupidity. But, that is likely a lot less people getting screwed over than when gov’t/one association takes over and starts calling the shots. IMHO anyway. Sorry for the drift…just had to get it off my chest. If national certification is implemented, I will have to follow like little lost sheep as every one else…BUT I AIN’T GONNA LIKE IT:twisted:
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The reason the fee is $1166 is because CAHPI/National are trying to purchase their own building.
It is an awful lot of money to spend for certification.