Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Russel,
That would be Captain Kirk Inspections, Inc.
Ok, beam me up scotty. 
Joe Myers
Russel,
That would be Captain Kirk Inspections, Inc.
Ok, beam me up scotty. 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hey Joe,
Look at it this way at least the tri-corders should speed up the inspection process, but you're going to look even sillier with pointed ears 
--
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
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Hello All,
The following article appeared in today's NJ Bergen Record. Although some may think that I'm the "girlfriend", note that she was opposed to S1685.
Nevertheless, it is heartening to see that my assumptions were correct; people are indeed quite a bit more intelligent than ASHI had hoped for them to be, and that apparently quite a few people not only clearly see through the ASHI party line, but also are doing whatever they can to make certain that this entire situation is investigated, and handled accordingly.
In addition, I find it interesting as well as very telling to note that the news of this debacle is apparently spreading like wildfire.
Lorraine Hutton
Here is a link, as well as full copy:
http://www.northjersey.com/page.php?qstr=eXJpcnk3ZjcxN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXkyJmZnYmVsN2Y3dnFlZUVFeXk2MzU5NTI4
NEWS
BUSINESS
Housing inspectors shut door on rivalry
Sunday, March 30, 2003
This column was supposed to be about the benefits of having your home inspected before you put it up for sale to avoid the shock and costs of problems that might be uncovered when the buyer has it inspected.
But it is hard to recommend that you do so when the industry's prime trade organization - aided by legislators who apparently put partisan politics ahead of what's good for their constituents - just bushwhacked an attempt to open the field to competition.
As a result, consumers could face a shortage of inspectors if the law enacted in 1998 takes effect as scheduled, at the end of May - the height of the home-buying season.
As of last week, there were just 60 licensed inspectors, and 20 with applications pending, a spokeswoman for the Division of Consumer Affairs said. Compare that with the estimated 800 to 1,000 people currently doing inspections in the state.
Many are part-timers who will probably be forced out of business by the new law, but the number is still far short of the 300 inspectors an industry official said would be needed to handle the estimated 100,000 to 110,000 inspections conducted annually in New Jersey.
Fortunately, we should avoid a crisis because the Assembly is expected to vote by May 15 on a Senate-passed bill to extend by a year a deadline for would-be inspectors to complete licensing requirements. But after seeing what happened in the Senate this month, nothing is guaranteed.
It wasn't supposed to be that way. On March 20, the Senate was expected to approve consumer-friendly amendments to a bipartisan home inspector licensing law that had breezed through the Assembly four weeks earlier.
Instead, under pressure from New Jersey chapters of ASHI - the American Society of Home Inspectors, a trade association - the Senate gutted the Assembly bill and passed a version that did nothing more than extend the grandfathering deadline to 2004.
In the process, the Senate eliminated, among other things, alternative licensing through community colleges and continuing education provisions.
You can make a legitimate argument that the legislators did not have enough time to review the extensive changes the Assembly made, but the action seems to be mostly a case of successful lobbying, a stealth attack, and partisan politics.
The lobbying covered all the bases. I even received a letter from an old high school girlfriend, whom I haven't seen in more than 40 years, telling me the evils of the bill. Her husband happens to be an active ASHI member.
The arguments didn't change my views, but they seemed to work with some senators. "There was little support in the Democratic caucus for the [Assembly] amendments, and not one vote from the Republican caucus," said Garry J. Furnari, D-Nutley, the bill's Senate sponsor.
"We were blindsided," said Assemblyman Anthony Impreveduto, D-Secaucus, the prime sponsor of both the original bill and the amendments.
ASHI worked closely with Impreveduto in drafting the original legislation, but the organization's state chapters became vocal critics when he attempted to make the process easier and to keep the established inspectors from controlling the licensing process.
The process should be tough, because "we want to put consumers' best interests in place, to make sure everyone going out there [to do inspections] is qualified," said Kevin Burnette, president of Foremost Property Inspections LLC of Franklin Lakes and a member of the board of directors of ASHI's Garden State chapter.
"We're not trying to monopolize," Burnette said. Give the current law a chance.
The intent is noble, but the realities of the original law and the numbers show potential problems.
Under the law, an applicant must become an associate inspector, doing at least 50 supervised inspections, and then spend at least a year working for someone who is already licensed, conducting an additional 250 paid inspections, to get a full license.
Impreveduto's bill would allow candidates to get fully licensed after taking approved courses at county colleges and conducting 50 closely supervised inspections.
That's not enough, said Robert Fico, owner of Ace Home Inspection of Westfield and a past president of Garden State ASHI. "Experience is absolutely paramount to this. Most inspectors feel that you have to do 500 to 1,000 inspections before you're really comfortable with what you're doing."
I don't disagree. But the law doesn't require associates to be supervised on their 250 inspections, so there could be a lot of on-the-job training - for which home buyers would still pay an average cost of about $500.
Also, if the average home inspector does 250 to 400 inspections a year, where does the associate he employs get 250?
Most telling was a comment by one ASHI member who said having more than the 300 inspectors currently needed in the state would lead to discounting. That, of course, could save consumers money and cost established inspectors some of there business.
That's called competition
Originally Posted By: rray
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That’s a great article.
–
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: gbeaumont
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Hi Lorraine,
thanks for the post and the link, it is good to know that you are getting so column inches, that show the problems in New Jersey, I think the writer did a hell of a good job putting across the problems and conflicts. Congratulations on your work in this area.
–
Gerry Beaumont
NACHI Education Committee
e-mail : education@nachi.org
NACHI phone 484-429-5466
Inspection Depot Education
gbeaumont@inspectiondepot.com
"Education is a journey, not a destination"
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Thank you Gerry.
I would also like to clarify something mentioned in the article. The reporter does not identify the “industry official” who provided the inspection stats.
I can only assume that he either spoke to someone from NJAR (New Jersey Association of Realtors), or someone from ASHI using NJAR stats. I believe this to be so, because I don’t think that there is any other entity that records housing sales in NJ. However, I will certainly stand corrected if anyone is aware of an additional source.
If the stats were derived from the information available from NJAR, please be advised of the following:
1) 140,000 is the total number of homes that were sold in 2002 according to NJAR.
2) Therefore, the figures "100,00 to 110,000" apparently reflect the fact that not all homes sold are indeed inspected.
3) NJAR stats reflect ONLY "existing single family home sales" therefore, they do NOT include the following:
a) FSBO
b) new construction
c) multi-dwelling (two family or more)
d) condo's
e) co-ops
f) sales of non-member offices
In addition, NJAR specifically states that these figures are based only upon what is reported. That said, I believe that anyone who has read an MLS listing, and then compared that listing to the home described therein, will have a very clear understanding of the accuracy, or lack thereof, with regard to the information "reported".
Add to the above 100,000 to 110,000 pre-purchase inspections, all of those pre-sale inspections that, for some reason, ASHI seems to prefer to pretend that they are non-existant; also, the fact that some homes as we all know, are inspected more than once when deals fall through. In addition, many buyers have more than one house inspected as well when when deals fall through. Therefore, it is logical to deduce that the estimate of even 110,000 inspections is extremely low, so much so that it is not even a figure that can be considered to be credible.
In addition to these facts, NJ is indeed the most densely populated state, with traffic considertions that are becoming legendary; taking all of this into account, as well as the double round trip to the inspected property for most of those Home Inspectors who are also licensed Radon Technicians, it becomes self-evident that even 300 Home Inspectors would not be able to come even close to fulfilling the needs of the consumer with regard to quality, price and availability.
Of course, I haven't even touched upon the fact that many of these Home Inspectors who will be grandfathered also perfom commercial inspections and have additional business interests; it is therefore disingenuous to believe that they will eliminate all of those lucrative aspects of their businesses simply to perform more home inspections.
Therefore, in light of this article, it should be interesting to see who might materialize on this board over the next few days, and even more interesting to read what that appointed spokesperson may have to say.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Lorraine,
Just one thing.......HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA....when I stop laughing I will share it with you.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Lorraine,
The 100-110K inspections performed is probably someone's best guess given the total number of sales . I'm pretty sure the Kevin Burnette mentioned in the article is married to a realtor, which could have been the source.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Lorraine,
You may want to try the National Association of Realtors http://www.realtor.com
While I am not sure they would include the latter group of people I am sure they keep track of what realtor members would sell in NJ.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Joseph Myers wrote: |
| Lorraine,
You may want to try the National Association of Realtors http://www.realtor.com While I am not sure they would include the latter group of people I am sure they keep track of what realtor members would sell in NJ. Joe Myers |
Hi Joe,
The 140,000 figure is one that I actually obtained from the NJAR website. However, all the stats that one can find on NJAR note that they were compiled by the National Assocaition of Realtors, of which it appears that NJAR is the state chapter.
Nevertheless, the guestimate of 110,000 spoken of in the article was most probably based upon the NAR figures, minus that 30% or so of buyers of existing single family homes who do not have a pre-purchase home inspection performed.
However, again, that figure reflects ONLY "existing single family home sales", a figure in itself that is a guestimate, since reporting is not absolute. I would therefore venture to say that the number of residential dwellings that are actually inspected is indeed quite a bit higher,
of course entailing more inspection time for those that are multi-family.
In the end though, licensing in itself should not be about "numbers", unless it is only about protectionism. As most would agree, business practice and competition should be the vehicles by which the numbers stabilize in accordance with market demand, based upon both competance and ethics.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Lorraine,
I would have to agree that those figures are most likely the low end of the scale. As you said, they don't track FSBO's and properties that have listing inspections performed.
HA...and you say that there is currently 60 licensed inspectors to inspect at least 110,000 properties! 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
| Joseph Myers wrote: |
| Lorraine,
I would have to agree that those figures are most likely the low end of the scale. As you said, they don't track FSBO's and properties that have listing inspections performed. HA...and you say that there is currently 60 licensed inspectors to inspect at least 110,000 properties!  Joe Myers |
| Joseph Myers wrote: |
| Lorraine,
I would have to agree that those figures are most likely the low end of the scale. As you said, they don't track FSBO's and properties that have listing inspections performed. HA...and you say that there is currently 60 licensed inspectors to inspect at least 110,000 properties!  Joe Myers |
Yes, Joe. Sixty. For 110,00 properties..at a minimum. And it is quite clear on how the NJ ASHI contingent had planned to handle all of those inspections. They would hire whomever they can, who can afford to work for a low wage, schedule those individuals to perform 3 or 4 inspections per day, perhaps even more, all the while pretending that this endeavor is what is indeed best for the consumer.
This will most certainly be the case for those who have other business interests, the so-called "weekend wonders/warriors", who will allow the newbies to fend for themselves, with the uninformed consumer none the wiser, while they pursue their profits in other professions, such as commercial inspections, TV/Cable shows, vineyard consulting, professional engineering, etc.
Many are the same individuals who repeatedly lambast and denigrate others at every given opportunity, who, just like them, may not perform home inspections seven days a week, such as firefighters, EMS workers, police officers, etc. Public service individuals often have on and off schedules, which makes the home inspection profession an ideal way for them to increase their all too often mediocre earnings, enabling them to continue to protect us all, including those who have worked to put them out of business.
This, in my opinion, is the epitome of a double standard, to say the least, all geared toward setting the stage to gain a full monopoly.
I have heard that at least one ASHI member is touting that he plans to pay a salary of 40,000.00 per year, applauding himself on his largesse. However, many of the individuals who will not qualify under the June 2002 grandfather date currently earn close to twice that, if not considerably more, as self-employed entrepreneurs. Consequently, this much self-touted largesse is not much more than minimum wage for those individuals, if even that much when all of the cost factors are considered, such as inspection time, travel time, report writing time, employee incurred expenses ($3,500 E&O, Health Insurance, gas etc, licensing compliance costs, and those ever present ASHI dues and PAC contributions).
It therefore seems apparent that many of these individuals will not be those who are indeed hired, and will therefore be forced out of the business, many of whom are more experienced than those who will receive a license. They will be passed over in favor of raw inexpensive newbies, who can be sent out uninsured, uneducated, untrained, and unlicensed, since, after all, that loophole still remains in the law, thanks in large part to ASHI, an organization that apparently sees state sanctioned unlicensed practice as a necessity for their end game.
Some of the NJ ASHI fellows seem to have concocted a plan that they apparently believe to be quite ingenious that will enable them to monopolize the market even if the grandfather date is extended to June 30 2004.
Apparently, a few are conducting an all out campaign to persuade Realtors to only refer to their clients those Home Inspectors who can supply a license number. This publication of license numbers is being done even now (and so far, by only a select few), when by law, one does not need a license in order to perform an inspection for another 2 months. Here are links to some examples:
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/allprohome/index.htm
http://www.almosthome.com/
http://www.ameri-search.com/
In doing so, they are of course engaging in misrepresentation and deception by leading the Realtors and the public to believe that a Home Inspector without a license number at this time is operating illegally, outside the law.
This is a passive manipulation, but manipulation nonetheless, which is evidentiary of the continued ASHI initiative to monopolize the profession, even if they must resort to circumventing the true legislative intent in order to accomplish their goal.
Interestingly enough though, the emphasis is upon the license number, and not the license itself, which is quite telling. Those who neglect to inform the consumer to look for an actual ID card that would document each individuals status, appear to be planning on deceiving the consumer even further, leading the consumer to believe that the individual is licensed, when that individual is actually using the license number of the "principal" of the firm. It will be interesting to see the NJAR members reaction when they find that the "licensed" Home Inspector whom they referred to a client really isn't licensed at all, and may not even possess that all important E&O about which NJAR is rightfully concerned.
Of course, I could be entirely wrong, and that the license numbers are being advertised simply because those doing so are just not quite capable of comprehending the implications of their actions. If so, that could explain why those who are more savvy and professional have not advertised their license numbers; perhaps they will be kind enough to educate their fellow less fortunate members in the error of their ways, before the consequences of such actions effect all those concerned.
However, if it is purposeful, the individuals who are orchestrating this web of deception are also those that the NJ Senators are apparently convinced should be solely responsible for training the future Home Inspectors of New Jersey.
Although it has been well established that a NJ Home Inspection license does not in any way prove that a Home Inspector is actually capable of training another in the practice of home inspection, those who continue to employ the above described deception will certainly make great headway in proving that they can certainly teach the aspiring home inspector quite a bit on how to beat the system for a profit.
Perhaps this is a glimpse of the future, and will prove to be the true meaning of what ASHI "branding" is really all about.
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Lorraine,
That was so sweet of you to place their web site address there for me to email them and let them know how distasteful I think they are for proudly displaying their licenses there for the general public to see.
FUBAR...is the only way to describe what they have turned this whole license issue into in NJ. Sometimes I wonder how they ever manage to succeed as home inspectors! 
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Sometimes I wonder how they ever manage to succeed as home inspectors!
Joe Myers[/quote]
Apparently that can't, which is why they must be so desperate to create a monopoly.
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Sixty Home inspectors to do 110,000 inspections!
Holy Sh**- I better get a new pair of running shoes. But first I'm asking my boss for a raise!
I will be the first to admit it. I try to educate the realtors while showing off my low license # on the official NJ HI license!
Originally Posted By: rray
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I don’t see what the problem is. 110,000 home inspections for 60 home inspectors is only 1,833 home inspections per inspector. That’s only five per day, seven days a week, or you can work hard for five days and take two days off. Guys, instead of complaining, rise to the challenge. You can do it. rotflmao. And if you can’t do it, holler at me. I’ll buy another HomeTeam franchise for New Jersey and get started over there. Remind me what the benefits are of living in New Jersey.
–
Home inspections. . . .
One home at a time.
Originally Posted By: Lorraine Hutton
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| Neal Lewis wrote: |
| Sixty Home inspectors to do 110,000 inspections!
I will be the first to admit it. I try to educate the realtors while showing off my low license # on the official NJ HI license! |
Perhaps you will be so kind to share with us exactly what this education entails. Hopefully it includes the truth.
Does it? And if so, exactly what is it that you have been taught that the "truth" might be?
Originally Posted By: nlewis
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Lorriane,
I tell the realtors that I am one the first to receive the NJ HI license and that eventually all HI's will have to be licensed. These are the facts.
Care to tell us which company you work for? And are your guys getting their licenses soon?
Originally Posted By: jmyers
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Neal,
I don't like your tone. I don't like you insinuations. It just so happens that I like Lorraine. She has been the only source of real information that has come from NJ.
What exactly is your beef with Lorraine? Do you care to share some of those truths with the rest of us? Maybe you would like to share with us who your boss is in relation to the NJ license issue and how both of you managed to get your license?
I believe one Robert Fico put it so eloquintly, "this is none of the comsumer's damn business". Hmmm.....was that the reason for the legislation? I could have swore it was.
Joe Myers
Originally Posted By: nlewis
This post was automatically imported from our archived forum.
Joe,
I don't have a beef with anyone. I don't have a hidden agenda. I've never opined about the licensing. I just provided a few facts I was aware of to Eric Warren and gave him a ribbing 'cause we're practically neighbors.
The info about me and my boss is at the website; Google takes you right there. We applied for the license like everyone else.