Inspecting a chimney course, is this a defect?

This photo is in the course titled “How to Inspect Fireplaces, Stoves, and Chimneys Course” and I Am just curious if I am correct. This would be considered a defect right? there is insulation against the flue and the wood is not protected at all/ too close?

What type of vent system/chimney is it?

Are you sure there is no dam holding the insulation away at the appropriate distance for the vent/chimney type?

How close is the wood to the metal?

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Morning, Michael. Hope to find you well.

First off, that is a chimney chase and flue. You can not determine if the flue has an inner stove or appliance combustion fresh air intake flue. Double walled flue.
So as being considered a defect, Limitations not visible.

To me it appears to be a double wall flue.

Home inspection defects are considered material defects if they have a significant impact on the property’s value or safety, or cosmetic defects.

Yikes. You may consider correcting this.

Morning, Brian. Hope to find you well.

Prior to posting I considered putting in cosmetics. The word cosmetic threw me off as well.
Thanks for the post.

As for a cosmetic defects. Inherently, many cosmetic defects are not considered ‘red flags,’ as you know. The word cosmetic often only indicated affect by appearance.
However Brian, in some contexts, cosmetic imperfections can signal various underlying issues from shifting to settling of the substrate and framing below.

Point. Foundation cracks can considered cosmetic, if/when it is a narrow, vertical, or diagonal in appearance. There can be surface or level imperfection, and the cracks do not indicate negative structural issues like a failing foundation or water intrusion. But never the less, the crack can be considered cosmetic.

Then it is no longer a cosmetic defect.

This is an perfect example of where your word salad misleads inspectors, especially new ones.

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Brian, it is not word salad. Slowly read and understand the post.
“Home inspection defects are considered material defects if they have a significant impact on the property’s value or safety, or cosmetic defects.” A defect is a defect. Rust on potable domestic water supply or drain waste pipes are a defect period. Yes the are cosmetic, But the hidden or underlying concerns can be financially destabilizing when purchasing a home or the safety when a cast iron hub or spigot leaks or breaks.
Cosmetic safety defects. Microbial growth.
Surface-level issues affecting a home’s resale appearance.
Severely damaged or old roof.

You are conflating cosmetic with visible.

From the NACHI SoP

You see, real defects are ugly. But that is not what makes them a defect. Mold is ugly, but the defect lies within the consequence of the mold, not its appearance.

And cosmetic is NOT mentioned here, for good reason.

If it cosmetic only, then I am not reporting on it! It is not material. See above.

If someone needs to ‘read slowly’ to understand what someone has posted, their post is garbage and should be removed, (or not posted to begin with)!!

I will take both your posts under consideration.

Hi Robert - where are you getting 6 and 8 inch clearances? I’ve always read 1 inch clearance for double wall b vents.

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Hi, Katherine. Hope to find you well..

You are correct. I will amend the post. Thank you. I will amend my notes as well. Again. Thank you.
Sorry everyone.

A single-wall metal pipe used as a vent connector passing through a wall, ceiling or floor must be guarded by a ventilated, non-combustible metal thimble, and must maintain a minimum clearance of 6 inches between the thimble and any combustibles.
A non-combustible thimble must be used where a single-wall metal pipe passes through a roof constructed of combustible material. It would be uncommon to find a single-wall metal pipe passing through a ceiling, wall, floor, or roof. For unlisted single-wall chimneys and vent connectors, a single-wall metal pipe used as a vent connector must maintain a minimum clearance of 18 inches between the metal pipe and any combustibles.

House framing components should be at least 2 inches away from the chimney wall. Open spaces between the chimney wall and the combustible building materials should be sealed and insulated with non-combustible material.
Type B vents must be equipped with their own special chimney caps. If the cap is damaged or lost, it should not be substituted with something not recommended by the manufacturer. The clearance required from combustible materials is printed on the flue’s exterior metal surface, and is generally 1 or 2 inches.

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OP’s picture represents one of the toughest things in our profession….. you really can’t get close enough to determine all the important things without trampling through insulation, risking damage to items under the insulation and stepping through the ceiling. This limitation is certainly listed in your contract and/or SOPs but it leaves the buyers in a tough spot - you can’t/don’t get there to get a good look and then recommend someone else do so? Trust me, in the heat of an inspection period, this is met with some strong annoyance/anger. Buyers hire us to answer questions, not present them.

Racing through my head - clearances may be incorrect/inadequate, but it’s been this way since 1978…. hmm. I can argue both sides all day long. Honestly, I lean towards letting things like this go if I can’t get there to say it’s wrong. The easy answer is to recommend someone figure out what I was afraid to - get a guy to plow through insulation and make a call. Good luck to you guys if agents and buyers ever call you again after passing this buck. Again, one of the tougher scenarios in our biz.

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Without a closer look, it’s impossible to determine clearances or any other defects that aren’t visible from a distance.

@lkage is asking IMO what are the right questions for this scenario. :up_arrow: :up_arrow:

Also, if it is indeed a wood buring fireplace or stove, I always recommed a Level II inspection.

Chimney Inspections

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IMO, what the OP’s picture shows is one of the easiest attics to cross.

The truss webs are within easy reach to have 2-3 points of contact stepping on the top of the bottom truss cord while traversing the distance. I can easily feel where I am stepping as I move along. And I would carry a child’s small wood/plastic leaf rake to smooth out the insulation as I returned.

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That, and for inspectors like me 6’4”, there’s plenty of head room. :grinning_face:

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Yeah one may have to duck a little but if you’ve been keeping up with your yoga, it is easily passable, n’est pas? :smiley:

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Camera pole for the win.

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Morning Larry. Hope to find you well.
Walking on angled roof truss webs can twist your ankles and contort your body.
I feel it is up to the inspector to discern if and when they enter attic spaces.

My routine entering attics is as follows.
Placing a bedding blanket sheet, or a folded plastic 8x8 foot plastic tarp on the floor below the attic hatch. Placing my ladder on the blanket. Suiting up with full PPE, full suit and gloves, full face mask. Loose fill chipped Glass can get in any crevice and irritate. Then entering and traversing many Attic spaces, such as the image in the OP post.
As welI I carefully walked/traversed on lower truss chords near webs when possible, listening and feeling deflecting or movement while looking at nailing places for movement and upon returning to attic hatch using my hand to fluff up the blown in chipped loose fill blown in glass fiber insulation.
Upon Dismounting the attic hatch, I removed my PPE, including shoe gloves, carefully moving off the tarp, flooding up the tarp with all kinds of glass fiber material and going outside to shake out the tarp on the street and put everything neatly away in my truck.

The brokers that said anything would say, Mr. Young, I have never seen anyone perform to your attic inspection standards. Some being in the business of selling homes for over 3 decades.

Larry, IMO that is Way Above SoP in my opinion but I did it anyway.